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Please refer to this discussion thread: Deleting Objects with Layer Manager open causing system instability .

It appears that there is a defect in the system that causes the program to crash when deleting objects with the Layer Manager open. I didn't receive any input or acknowledgement from a Trimble rep in the thread so I'm bring it up as a question Jeopardy style.

This morning, I had a chance to use the handy TML - Copy Layer Group Members (V2) macro for the first time. It copied the group, 33 layers and their properties as expected. After spending a few minutes adjusting the layer names in the Layer Manager, I noticed the macro also copied the source groups layer members as well. As I didn't need a duplicate copy of these objects, and having momentarily forgotten that this issue exists, I instinctively started using the Select Members command to delete the duplicate objects layer by layer. It was of no surprise that on the third layer, the system hung and subsequently crashed losing all work to that point in my current 30 minute save reminder window.

The question is, has Trimble been able to duplicate and acknowledge the issue and have the proper people been made aware creating a fix?

Thank you.

Rich

I just ran the Project Clean Up command and noticed that the Layer Manager was open just as I was clicking the Apply button. Welp, the routine didn't run as usual and TBC ultimately crashed when it got to "deleting unprotected empty layers". Restarted TBC and ran Project Clean Up without issue with the Layer Manager closed. 

Richard

Apologies - I have been off with the Flu and am just slowly getting back in the saddle again and trying to clear the backlog here. I have put a request into Support to see if they have registered this issue and if Yes where are they heading with a Fix etc. Will get back on this when I hear.

Alan

Thanks for the response Alan. I had a feeling you were out as it's not like you to not respond in some way. Be well.

I am being asked for specific data sets and step sequences to reproduce

this Delete while Layer Manager is open - can you provide me with the data

/ project and exact steps that you are using and I will reproduce this

afternoon and move it forwards

Alan

On Wed, Feb 27, 2019 at 12:14 PM rtyndall@petillo.com <trimble@jiveon.com>

Alan,

Attached is the .vce I’ve been working on recently. Let me know if you need anything else.

1. Open the Layer Manager un-docked

2. Select a layer in the list.

3. “Select Members” button top right corner of Manager

4. Right click in work space. Select delete

5. Program Hangs

6. Program usually crashes and closes with no warning screen.

Also happened today.

• Layer Manager was open and undocked

• Ran project cleanup

• Settings (checked items)

• Entire project

• Include all Sheet Views

• Remove unused block definitions

• Remove zero length and fragment lines

• 0.00

• Remove unprotected layers with no objects

• Remove blank text objects

• Remove hatch objects

• Set elevation outside range to undefined

• 100

• 700

• Program hangs but slowly proceeds down the status list

• Program crashed and closed as soon as status “Remove unprotected layers with no objects” reported.

Generally, Layer Manager is somewhat “laggy” when tab’ing through the cells as well.

Richard Tyndall

Project Manager

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@Wayne Welshans , @Katie Byron,

Would you be so kind as to forward the file you were in when you experienced the program crash that we discussed in the Deleting Objects with Layer Manager open causing system instability thread to Alan? The more information we give them the better. Thanks

It did it for me in all of my projects.  Including in a blank project created from the default US Survey Feet template.

Hi Alan,

Here is the data set that I was in when I first started having issues. It is essentially a CAD dwg. file that was imported into TBC and then I was in the process of cleaning it up (while the layer manager was open) when I started having issues. Just for kicks I opened the vce. file before posting here to see if t would happen again. All I did was open the layer manager and try to delete a small amount of items at once. TBC proceeded to "freeze". I have removed a lot of he data from the file but the process still happens.

Katie

While I haven't seen a crash yet, what I can see is that Deleting Data while Layer Manager is open takes a lot longer to execute than with Layer Manager Closed. This looks very similar to the issue that we had with the Properties Pane prior to the 5.01 Patch. I guess if you select a lot of data to delete this may cause a crash or an apparent Hang (because of the lag in the deletion process because Layer Manager is Open

When you say a "Crash" i take that to mean it bombs out of TBC - the program closes of it's own accord and work is physically lost as a result of no save

If you say Exception I assume it threw an Exception Message - this is not a crash (this is us trapping something strange) and often does not result in a crash - however saving, exiting and restarting is good practice when you get these

If you say a Hang or a freeze - that is the product freezing up and never coming back (or being very slow to come back (if you leave it long enough sometimes it does come back), causing you to use Task Manager to exit the program and restart.

If you say the program "starts misbehaving" then it starts doing weird things either Graphically or other that interferes with your processes.

We believe that this issue was resolved yesterday - I am yet to validate but let's hope so - there will be a release in May we hope unless it is decided that we need to get a Patch out for any other reason.

Alan

Alan,  Here is a vce project file where the error was happening for me.  If you open the file, open project manager, select all items on the layer "DTM OG LDI Contours" and then delete them.  On my system the program hangs for a minute or so, then the layer manager window does weird things like going black and flashing, then TBC closes and anything not saved is lost.  This was the smallest project file I had around, it does it with all my larger files also, but with this smaller one it only does it when deleting a few hundred items or more at once while the layer manager window is open.  The whole issue is not much of a concern for me as I don't normally leave the layer manager open, but for someone like the OP it would be huge so hopefully this will help some.

No Exceptions were produced. If the program crashed, it closed as you described, or resumes in a misbehaving condition. 

Since the program would occasionally resume, although misbehaving, and other times close, I guess you could say it would hang and freeze depending on if it came back or not. Whatever the case is, it would not respond for several moments until it made up it's mind which fate was certain.  

I don't quite understand why your not getting a straight up crash like myself and other users. The issue is pretty consistent throughout any project I've worked when I've tried to test. Makes no sense. You using one of those new fangled quantum computers?

A May patch is a disappointing length of time to have to use malfunctioning software. The problem is, sometimes the user will forget that the issue exists. Then, for no other apparent reason other then Trimble doesn't feel it necessary to provide a patch in a timely matter, the user is faced with losing work/production because of a malfunctioning product. Sorry for being so blunt, but I doubt the checks used to pay for the software don't take 10+ weeks to clear. Please reconsider issuing the patch, and any future patches for known and proven defects, in a more timely manner.

Alan - thank you again for your help and efforts with this issue.

Thanks to you all - we have found and addressed the issue flagged here - it will be in the next release

Alan

I need to report that, when exploding blocks with the "delete blocks after exploding" checked, also crashes the Layer Manager as well as the  program if the Layer Manager is open while exploding blocks. I'm off to redo work again because of this bug. Please consider a patch sooner rather than later as the issue has been identified. Unnecessary rework does not make the user nor his boss happy!!! Thank you.