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Penmap issues and limitations (points import and site calibration)

  • 1.  Penmap issues and limitations (points import and site calibration)

    Posted 10-10-2022 08:05

    Hi all,

    I am testing Penmap for Android Unlimited per month (release 11.8.0.2490) with Catalyst DA2 and have encountered some issues or different limitations that I am unable to work out.

    I need to import my local control points into a project, to define a local reference frame (ENh) without Datum or projection. My idea is to perform a site calibration using my local coordinates as reference nodes. I remember that I have made exactly this procedure some time ago, in a previus release of Penmap with Catalyst DA1, but in that case I entered the reference nodes manually in Penmap Point Manager, with success.
    Now, working with the current environment, I am not able to enter points manually into the Point Manager (is this a new limitation?) and I am tryng to import my points by creating a new project in Penmap Project Manager. Despite many attempts, point importation by csv file seems to fail, and I get a format error even though the format looks correct according to manual:

    PointID,Easting,Northing,Elevation,Code
    GCP01,986.354,956.029,227.649,A

    Importing the points though a shapefile is successful, but the imported coordinates are saved in a GIS layer (where I see different decimal separator for planar coordinates and height!) and partially uploaded to the Point Manager list, being imported the planar components only, without height and point names.
    I have tried to edit the point list but the only editable field is the elevation, other fields cannot be modified. The point type that the points are associated to is "Freepoint".

    Trying to perform a site calibration, I'm not able to tap on the reference nodes since they are not correctly selected (selection tap fails). I have made a test by tapping on a measured point (GNSS type) as reference mode, the selection is possible but the point is not accepted as a reference node.

    Am I wrong or there are some troubles with my setup and tools?

    Thank you

    Best regards,



    ------------------------------
    Massimo
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  • 2.  RE: Penmap issues and limitations (points import and site calibration)

    Posted 10-10-2022 17:29
    Massimo,

    I just ran through this today while conducting a training. You cannot have headers abd you need all cells filled out in tbe CSV. I would recommend a CSV over a shapefile import which is what you were attempting first. Make sure that there are no blank/null values in any of the cells (including point ID and Code). Feel free to share the CSV if you'd like. It could be the coordinates, as it is expecting coordinates in the coordinate system and datum of your project. Also, you can enter manual coordinates via the bottom menu under enter data: https://help.trimblegeospatial.com/PenmapForAndroid/en/Content/Data-entry.htm

    ------------------------------
    Zach Edwards
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  • 3.  RE: Penmap issues and limitations (points import and site calibration)

    Posted 10-11-2022 04:54
    Edited by Patrik Stahlhut 10-11-2022 09:04
    Dear Massimo,

    you can only edit nodes in pointmanager but you can enter nodes by values like easting and northing if you go to your project and open "Topo" menu.
    Now scroll the buttons in the lower menu to the left untill you see the button enter data:
    This function allows you to enter nodes via values.

    Regarding your import of csv I can only imagine what Mr. Zach Edwards already mentioned below.
    Also please recheck if you did use the seperator(, or.) set in Project manager for your csv import/export.

    If your trouble with this should persist, I would reccomend to create a supportcase by reaching out to your local trimble dealer.
    If you do so please send him the used project, the csv file you used and all data used to replicate this bahaviour.

    Kind regards
    Patrik

    ------------------------------
    Patrik Stahlhut
    ------------------------------



  • 4.  RE: Penmap issues and limitations (points import and site calibration)

    Posted 10-11-2022 05:58

    Dear Zack, Patrik

    Many thanks for your reply. I made a double check on the importing csv and succeeded to get the points into the project. It was probably a problem due to headers.
    Now that my points are inside the project as Free Points in local coordinates (around position 1000, 1000, 200 meters), I wanted to perform a site calibration using those points as reference nodes.
    I was able to do that some time ago, in April, using the Penmap version available at that time (11.6.0.x). As you can see in the attached screenshots, a calibration was computed through reference nodes with coordinates in a local reference frame (ENh around 100, 100, 100 m).

    In the current version I'm not able to tap the reference nodes, as showed in the attached screenshot. Points in the local coordinates cannot be selected any way. It seems a graphic issue due to big distances between local and global coordinates. How can I go through this and get a successful site calibration on local (no projecton, no datum) reference system? This would be very useful for our application.

    Kind regards
    Massimo



    ------------------------------
    Massimo Gelmini, Gexcel
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  • 5.  RE: Penmap issues and limitations (points import and site calibration)

    Posted 10-12-2022 00:55

    Dear Massimo,

    coordinates in penmap need to match the coordinatesystem.

    What you can do is to set your values higher by the same amount in the imported csv so your location is shifted further to the location you desire. 
    E.g. using Germany UTM Zone 32 I would add a 500000 easting and 5000000 in northing.

    Kind regards
    Patrik




    ------------------------------
    Patrik Stahlhut
    ------------------------------



  • 6.  RE: Penmap issues and limitations (points import and site calibration)

    Posted 10-12-2022 07:44
    Dear Patrik,

    Thank you for the clarification about Penmap.Even if it is not so practical, I thought exactly what you have suggested and I have made some tests applying different offset to my local coordinates to see the app behaviour.
    Considering that my local coordinates are around (1000, 1000), and using RDN2008 as reference frame for Italy (Italy zone, Projected, East-North), my current position is about (6862000,5041000). If interested, here are the results that I have gotten by applying different offsets and zooming in and out accurately:

    Case 0 - PointID: original local coordinates as reference nodes (no transformation)
    Case 1 - PointID-1: false origin of 6000000, 5000000 (residual distance ~ up to 1000km)
    Case 2 - PointID-2: false origin of 6800000, 5000000 (residual distance ~ up to 100km)
    Case 3 - PointID-3: false origin of 6860000, 5040000 (residual distance ~ up to 10km)
    Case 4 - PointID-4: false origin of 6862000, 5041000(residual distance ~ up to 1km)

    Case 4 and 3 are correctly handled (reference nodes can be zoomed in and selected).
    Case 2 is handled even if reference nodes are not visualized on the map for selection (only shown after calibration is computed)
    Case 1 not handled (points not visualized and not available for selection - probably "hidden" by the nodes of Case 0)
    Case 0 is handled (!) even if reference nodes are not visualized on the map, only available for selection at the max zoom out. The calibration is computed but measured points are not mapped, so not very useful.

    Attached some screenshots.

    Kind regards,
    Massimo

    ------------------------------
    Massimo Gelmini, Gexcel
    ------------------------------



  • 7.  RE: Penmap issues and limitations (points import and site calibration)

    Posted 10-13-2022 00:56
    Dear Massimo,

    thank you for sharing your results of different user cases.

    Kind regards

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    Patrik Stahlhut
    ------------------------------