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DA2 Breadcrumb Trails with Terraflex

  • 1.  DA2 Breadcrumb Trails with Terraflex

    Posted 03-02-2023 10:59

     I'm trying get breadcrumb trails working with our DA2 and Terraflex on iOS, but the system doesn't seem to be logging. I have both "Show Map Breadcrumb" and "Breadcrumb Logging" enabled. I'm using a point collection form as a starting point.  Trimble Connect only has points after syncing and I can't see breadcrumb trail on the map in the Terraflex app. I'm not moving, just feeding the DA2 from an indoor GNSS relay from our rooftop antenna. I would expect to see a cluster of points scattered.Perhaps I need to be moving? Suggestions?    Shouldn't there also be an option to configure 1Hz, 5Hz, and 10Hz positioning rates? 



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    Scott Jacobsen
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  • 2.  RE: DA2 Breadcrumb Trails with Terraflex

    Posted 03-02-2023 18:35

    Hi Scott,

    Breadcrumb points are only drawn on the map and logged to the breadcrumb file when you moving. The intention with breadcrumb logging is to capture a trail of where you have been, if you are standing still then there isn't a lot of value in recording a large number of points in the same place. Please try walking round with your DA2 and see if the breadcrumbs are logged correctly.

    Thanks
    Hamish



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    Hamish MacMillan
    TerraFlex Product Manager
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  • 3.  RE: DA2 Breadcrumb Trails with Terraflex

    Posted 03-03-2023 14:03

    Thanks, the breadcrumb trails now show up when walking. Cheers.



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    Scott Jacobsen
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  • 4.  RE: DA2 Breadcrumb Trails with Terraflex

    Posted 08-06-2024 14:43

    Hi Hamish,

    For reasons I don't understand, breadcrumbs are not syncing with Trimble Connect consistently, while they seemed to a year ago.  What are the conditions necessary for the breadcrumbs to appear? If we force a sync, should we expect to see the breadcrumbs in Trimble Connect immediately?  We have tried moving around, making sure we have a form open, dropping points, etc.  It seems that only 1 time out of 20 do breadcrumbs for our form sessions end up in Trimble Connect.



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    Scott Jacobsen
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  • 5.  RE: DA2 Breadcrumb Trails with Terraflex

    Posted 08-06-2024 15:18

    Scott, the breadcrumb logging is not consistently one second. It's usually somewhere between one and five seconds from what I have found. The files get broken up if the session is interrupted. One thing that I have found that's useful is creating a point at the beginning and saving it as draft. By having a draft, it should keep subsequent forms from being synced up to the cloud, including the breadcrumb from what I can tell. I feel like this, keeps the CSV breadcrumbs that are produced to a minimum. If you block the receiver or get in and out of a car, I believe you'll get another CSV. Trying to keep out in the open will help with this. Again, the intention of this breadcrumb is just a track of where you have been. It should not be used for continuous topo even though I know it can be convenient if all works perfectly. 



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    Zach Edwards
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  • 6.  RE: DA2 Breadcrumb Trails with Terraflex

    Posted 08-07-2024 07:43

    Scott, Hamish and Zach,

    I too have experienced that the Bread Crumb CSV file doesn't appear in the Connect Project folder within 1 to 5 to minutes as expected like other data collected in the same Project/MapWorkspace. 

    It has taken more like 1 to 2 hours before the CSV file appears in the Project folder. 

    Why is this taking so long to be written/stored in the Project folder?

    Thanks,



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    Jay Riester
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  • 7.  RE: DA2 Breadcrumb Trails with Terraflex

    Posted 08-07-2024 21:16

    Hi Scott,

    I am not aware of any change here, I will get the team to take a look and see whether this is behaving as we expect.

    Thanks



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    Hamish MacMillan
    TerraFlex Product Manager
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  • 8.  RE: DA2 Breadcrumb Trails with Terraflex

    Posted 03-03-2023 08:17

    Scott,

    The breadcrumb CSV should show up in in TerraFlex on connect in a folder called "Breadcrumb Files." I believe it's 1 pt ever 2 seconds or .5hz? I would look closer, as I am still getting positions in the CSV from where I am standing still on control. Also, check out this video that we put out on the latest TerraFlex enhancements (breadcrumb files and auto-fields): https://youtu.be/ys4bT1g_S84. 



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    Zach Edwards
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  • 9.  RE: DA2 Breadcrumb Trails with Terraflex

    Posted 03-03-2023 14:06

    Thanks Zach, that was the first video I watched and I couldn't figure out why my breadcrumb folder wasn't popping up.  I thought it was supposed to appear after an export, but I think it is auto populated with a sync to Trimble Connect.   Turns out that I need to move around a bit to get a breadcrumb trail.



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    Scott Jacobsen
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  • 10.  RE: DA2 Breadcrumb Trails with Terraflex

    Posted 12-05-2023 16:03

    Hi, Zach, that video was really helpful - thanks for that. 

    Just wondering if anyone has used & exported the TerraFlex breadcrumb trail enough yet to have a sense of how practical it is to use & download (or at least sync) every day?  Can we not set the logging interval to use distance vs. time?  We track ourselves while conducting rare species surveys every field day and sometimes have to submit a shapefile of our transects as a project deliverable.  This need for a tracklog has been one of the biggest reasons we have been clinging to our Geo 7Xs, TerraSync & Pathfinder Office for dear life - I'm just not convinced that any of the current options in TerraFlex or the "Mobile Workers" option in Field Maps are going to be as simple & reliable as just pressing "Play" in TerraSync & checking one box in PFO!  

    For any ground work we do, I have our Geo 7Xs set to log at a 1 second interval for any *features,* but the between-feature logging is set to 16 ft. (the highest option).  A lot of my day is spent staring at potentially rare plants, barely moving through muck or dense shrubs, etc.; a point every second would make my .ssf files even more huge than they already are.  (We change that interval to 1 second when doing surveys via helicopter.)  If the only option for the TerraFlex breadcrumb trail is to log every second, what kind of file size does that result in, and can we pause it / uncheck the "Breadcrumb Logging" box when moving between survey areas, etc.? 

    Also, I'm sure there's an ESRI tool out there to connect the dots to make a line feature later, but if anyone already has a workflow for that, I would love to know that, too!  We currently opt for "One line per group of Not in Feature positions" in PFO.  

    Thanks for any help.



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    Alicia Jackson
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  • 11.  RE: DA2 Breadcrumb Trails with Terraflex

    Posted 12-05-2023 16:21

    It is practical to use as a back-up but I would not necessarily lead with it. That being said, it's fairly consistent at 1 second. You should not worry about file size, as it's a CSV. You will find that you'll likely get several CSVs over a days worth of collection. The breadcrumbis not configurable but you can configure a line template to log at every X distance or X Time. 



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    Zach Edwards
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  • 12.  RE: DA2 Breadcrumb Trails with Terraflex

    Posted 12-05-2023 17:11

    Oh, that's good to know re: line features - thanks!  I do occasionally use lines instead of relying on the tracklog.  The problem is remembering to start a new line after every point feature - in good habitat, I'm collecting several points on each transect, so it would be a lot of starting & stopping.  And I suppose filling in many "forms" that we don't actually care about (we'd only need the date & maybe the time).  When I've used lines in TerraSync before, it's just a little extra down-time every time I find something to 1) stop my line, 2) collect a point / fill in data, 3) start a new line, & 4) go back to Map view before I can start walking or flying parallel lines again.  Minor, I know, but it adds up.  (Especially when a helicopter pilot is trying to hover, waiting on me to start surveying again!)  

    Anyway, knowing the .csv files aren't going to eat up all of our memory is great - thanks.  TerraFlex is still sounding easier, or at least more familiar, than the Field Maps option.  



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    Alicia Jackson
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  • 13.  RE: DA2 Breadcrumb Trails with Terraflex

    Posted 12-05-2023 17:48

    Yup. And you can extract the feature vertices as points in ESRI or QGIS to get the points out. You can do point "nesting" in TerraFlex similar to TerraSync. It's a bit different though. While inside a feature/form, you can back out in the top left, hit the plus to collected your nested point, line, or polygon, then submit your nested feature and resume the line. 



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    Zach Edwards
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  • 14.  RE: DA2 Breadcrumb Trails with Terraflex

    Posted 12-06-2023 09:22

    Hi Alicia!

    We use Field Maps facilitated thru Enterprise Portal on iOS. It takes a little work to get the maps set up so that the field can take a local copy to work independently of cell service / wifi, but we have full control over schema and data collection / editing. And it's just as easy as either clicking the sync button once back in network range or enabling auto-sync. We then reconcile and post the versions twice nightly so that all the operators have each others' edits from the previous day. We have gone away from Trimble yellow boxes and are now using RTX corrections via R1 and similar antennas so we can get our precisions down sub 2-foot.



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    Eric Collins, P.L.(Eng.), P.Tech.(Eng.)
    Operations Technology, Chief Operations Engineering

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  • 15.  RE: DA2 Breadcrumb Trails with Terraflex

    Posted 12-26-2023 08:20
    Edited by Joel Cusick 12-26-2023 08:21

    Hi Alicia,

    Take a look at ESRI Quick Capture.  I'm looking around to see if the DA2 input is available in the November 2023 release.  Anyone know?    Its eerie how simple QC, and on the same simplicity workflow as TerraSync was.  Breadcrumbs is available and simultaneous multiple feature collection (point while collecting a line or poly).  It doesn't have a PAUSE on lines though.  Every line is a new line feature, but its an alternative from Field Maps that has value in many cases.



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    Joel Cusick
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  • 16.  RE: DA2 Breadcrumb Trails with Terraflex

    Posted 08-07-2024 07:47

    Zach,

    Thanks for this example in ArcMap.

    I would like to see an option for the CSV Bread Crumb file to then also be auto created into a KML/KMZ file in the same folder. Or and option for the User to Export out this CSV to KML/KMZ file within Trimble Connect.

    We have some customer that do not use Esri or QGIS platform and having a KML/KMZ export of the Bread Crumb trail would be useful for some customers and their clients.

    Thanks,



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    Jay Riester
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  • 17.  RE: DA2 Breadcrumb Trails with Terraflex

    Posted 08-07-2024 07:53

    Jay,


    While this is a good suggestion, it's simple for the end user to open Google Earth and import the CSV and plot the breadcrumb trail. It will then plot those points. 



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    Zach Edwards
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  • 18.  RE: DA2 Breadcrumb Trails with Terraflex

    Posted 08-07-2024 08:00

    Good point Zach.

    Thanks,



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    Jay Riester
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