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Datum shift in ESRI QuickCapture

  • 1.  Datum shift in ESRI QuickCapture

    Posted 04-14-2024 13:36
    Edited by Joel Cusick 04-18-2024 10:43


    Posted this on both QuickCapture and Survey 123 Ideas boards  Hi-Accuracy Storage of Coordinates with Web mercat... - QuickCapture Ideas Esri Community  and Hi-Accuracy Storage of Coordinates with Web mercat... - Survey 123 Ideas Esri Community

    Since there is an interplay between Trimble and ESRI to ensure hi accuracy storage of coordinates , I wanted to increase visibility of this issue.

    If others want to evaluate, say Survey 123 that would be welcomed.  I only tested QuickCapture, and with the Trimble R1 and R12i using NAD83(2011) GNSS outputs and handled TMM with Mock locations ON to feed into a Web Mercator basemap.    

    Make the same assumptions in QuickCapture and possibly Survey123 that you make in FieldMaps and you will get bit with 0.9 - 1.4meter shift in online storage of solutions.

    Currently, only Field Maps properly stores hi-accuracy data in a datum other than the default WGS84 basemaps.   For consistency alone, I think this should change.   Since NGS now provides public access to all of the OPUS share and survey control in NAD83 (2011) - see OPUS Shared Solutions - Overview ( we are in an ideal situation to evaluate, in the field, true accuracy before or after a project (or during training).  Its currently not possible to do this in QuickCapture.

    An argument I'm sure will be made by advanced users to match the GCS of the basemap to the augmentation, but are we willing to do that in every training location, and burden the new user with making a MMPK or VTPK evertime they go out in the field.  Many cannot do that at licensing levels, and again, a whole other workflow than Field Maps.  These apps should work the same when it comes to hi accuracy.  They don't right now.

    One of the figures in my attachment in the post above.

    Joel Cusick

  • 2.  RE: Datum shift in ESRI QuickCapture

    Posted 04-19-2024 06:26

    Joel, thanks for reposting this in this forum. We have used The R1 and R2 along with Collector, and now Field Maps on both iOS and Android devices using the companion apps of GNSS Status, the Trimble Mobile Manager. Our objective is to always achieve the best accuracy possible with the available equipment and software. We see the same challenges that you do regarding multiple changing settings requirements, software app updates and the general complexity of the processes happening in the background. Too little effort, we think, has been taken by the software/hardware developers and the sales support community to ensure this process to achieve high accuracy is streamlined and understandable. 

    It is great that ESRI and Trimble has, or once did have, a team that worked jointly on the development of this field data collection process. But, this type of system problem seems to continue over the years. 

    We try to always include check in points to known monumentation as a part of the field operations, but that is not easy to accomplish on the fly, in the field where it needs to happen, because of datum transformation issues, incorrect profiles in use, or incompatible map GCS occurences. Field staff cannot spend an hour at a check in point trying to figure out an inaccuracy problem.  And we have documented where the accuracy bar in FM displays acceptable accuracy but then is not matched in the recorded GNSS metadata, causing more uncertainty. Ten years ago, maybe we could say that this was an evolving technology and not everything is worked out yet, but I'm not sure that still works after years of software and hardware improvements. 

    We don't have any magic solutions but would offer that if you need high accuracy results, plan on a lot of high-level support for that operation and have a strong tech support program to rely upon. Then be prepared to test their suggestions in the field, as they sometimes will not have the firsthand field experience that enables them to really understand your issue, nor the time to really listen.  We welcome the opportunity to expose these topics in a wider forum of the mobile mapping data collection community.

    Mike Mike

  • 3.  RE: Datum shift in ESRI QuickCapture

    Posted 04-19-2024 08:17

    Mike, Mike,

    Excellent response and had to post in this forum due to the incredible receivers and support Trimble provides the user.   

    What I find shocking is so little attention is given to, like you said "checking into control".  The simple app Quick Capture is a lightning fast app to teach to old and new comers on the cycle from Pro to AGOL and back down again. In fact most of my data points in this test were from a 8 person class, moving around on a control network and simply pressing a button, pre-configured with Receiver/Augmentation/MiddleWare/MobileApp and monitored for proper antenna placement.  So simple to do in actual practice, and everyone can see back after the field what they did.  Back in the day, without the melding pot called AGOL, a GPS class could only peer over at their neighbors monitor and see what they did and how close they were on the mark.   On average 70% of the class hit the bullseye, the other 30% let out a "...hmm, whats going on?"

    We really can't blame the thousands using these tools with the internet stuffed with "Hi-Accuracy workflows".  Watch any video out there and no one is mentioning the GCS of the basemap, which as you know, is the controlling factor in the big 3 mobile workflows.  Combine this with a "combo" workflow, using say Field Maps with Survey 123, and you have a recipe for storing incredibly precise data 1 meter away.

    NGS now has the fix, with access to NAD83(2011) control on their rest services, and OPUS SHARE.  It's just getting data to that "right spot" that has so many levers to pull.  It is great to read your last paragraph.  We should all be concerning ourselves on datum handling, and less about how cool a software is and be more precise and accurate in support documentation in achieving the steps to get there.  Impossible to do without checking into survey control.  Can you imagine the confusion in 2026 if we don't know where the data is going right now?

    Joel Cusick