Steven Sheppard

Ask the Experts - Trimble Access & TBC : April 2020

Discussion created by Steven Sheppard on Apr 13, 2020
Latest reply on Jun 1, 2020 by Peter Redway

Thanks to everyone that listened in to the recent Ask the Experts webinar. We've compiled the questions that were relevant to the Trimble Access / TBC topic of the session. If you have any questions or would like some more information about a particular topic just ask here and we'll get onto it. 

Hope to see you at the next Ask the Experts!

Question 1: 

I had a job file in trimble access where the battery went dead, and my survey style wasn't set the way I expected. I ended up with some of the rod heights coming from bottom of quick release, and some from bottom of antenna mount. I couldn;t find anyway to select multiple observations, and chnage to the correct measurement. In access or TBC. I expect this is possible, but unable to figure out how?

Answer 1:

In order to do a bulk change to this you would need to do it in TBC. 

Once the data is in TBC open a Vector Spreadsheet. In there you will be able to apply filters to hone in on the problem observations. As a default the “To Method” may be switched off in the spreadsheet, you can change this in the Project Settings under View > Vector Spreadsheet. Once you have found them and isolated them from the other vectors using the filters, then select them all at once, using a Shift Select and open the Properties window. WIthin the properties you can change all of the “To Method” values to the correct method.

Question 2:

How do you edit raw data collector data, or is this possible.

Answer 2:

The raw observations themselves are not able to be amended in either Trimble Access or TBC, this is to ensure the integrity of the measurements. In TBC you can however use commands such as “Move Survey Point” to shift the location of a point that has been observed, which simultaneously disables the vector, or observation. On screen you will still see the vector connected to the point and the station, but it no longer controls the location of the point. 

Question 3:

is it possible to join multiple polylines in access to create a continuous alignment

Answer 3:

Yes, simply make the selection of the polylines in the map screen then click and hold to bring up options on screen . Select Key In Alignment, and you’ll be able to store the geometries that have been selected as a new alignment.

Question 4:

We had a person setup on a point and mixed up backsight/forsight point numbers, of course the backsight ditance checked, so he kept measuring topo. We could see this in TBC, but wasn't able to figure out, exactly how rto correct raw data to fix problem. Is this possible or does this fall in the no data integrity issue?

Answer 4:

This was just discussed and shown on the recent TBC Power Hour

2020 | March 25

TBC Power Hour: Find and Correct Common Field Data Errors

https://attendee.gotowebinar.com/recording/549871668405988108

Go to the 30 minute mark to see a worked example of fixing this

 

Question 5:

Will there be / is there a version of Trimbles own WMS like google maps/open maps etc?

Answer 5:

Not that I know of. Many government organisations host WMS for different applications. I’ll find out a little more about the maps from TBC and post additional info here if anything significant comes to light.

Question 6:

How would you go about creating a surface of a open cast pit with steep high walls?Problem is if you are just draping it vertically,it creates spikes in the surface.Any other work arounds or suggestions?

Answer 6:

Interesting that you’re getting spikes in the surface. I assume this has been captured from aerial or scanning and you’re modeling a surface from the point cloud? One way to avoid quite so many spikes is to try running the Extract Ground, or Classify Point Cloud. This can remove some of the noisy data that may be creating the spikes. 

If cleaning the data doesn’t help then you could try utilising a Projected Surface which allows you to drape in non-vertical directions. This can be advantageous in many situations, but it will result in multiple surfaces in order to model an entire pit, due to the fact that one Projected Surface will most likely be unsuitable for every vertical face. 

Question 7:

in Trimble Access, can we do a 2 face measure in resection during setup? I cant find that option.

Answer 7:

When you define the Survey Style you will find this option under Instrument.

Changing this to do an Auto F1/F2 measurement for Station setup will ensure that you use both faces on all Station Setups. 

When you are already in a job you can change these settings and override them or activate them purely for the one job. Doing it that way will not make it a global requirement for all jobs using that Survey Style.

Question 8:

i saw a youtube video about upgrading r10 receiver to r12 engine, is there benefit in doing here?

Answer 8:

Yes. There is always an advantage to every firmware upgrade for a receiver. The team behind the GNSS receivers are always working to get better results and each incremental firmware upgrade should yield better performance related to the improvement area. The release notes for each firmware version will document what area that is. 

The R12 saw a significant leap forward in signal tracking, we went from HD-GNSS to Propoint. This means that the filters used for position determination changed significantly and show improved performance in difficult environments. The R10 was already very capable, but the slogan of “Go further” is perfectly apt. You’re able to use the R12 in more environments and still achieve a position fix. 

Question 9:

Have you seen any problems with the new Access, TSC7 with the S7. A customer saw a delay in how fast the point was stored. The coordinate was stored in the wrong location.

Answer 9:

No, I have not seen any problems here. I’ve checked with the global team and product managers and there haven’t been any cases reported about this either.

The user posing this question has been contacted and this issue will be explored in full once they reply.

 

Question 10:

I can’t export a TBC job directly to my TSC2 and TSC3 via Trimble Access.  Specifically, a TBC job that has a site calibration. I can export it to the TBC file folder then copy it over to the survey controller.  But that defeats the Access workflow. Please help!

Regarding the TBC to Access, it's in both TSC2 & TSC3.  I'm connected via Widows Mobile Device Center. There's no answers in TBC help to send a TBC calibration job to a Survey Controller

Answer 10:

This sounds like it may be more of a connectivity issue with the PC and controller than an export issue. 

If it’s a connection issue please work through the WINDOWS MOBILE DEVICE CENTER CONNECTION ISSUES Support Note:

http://trl.trimble.com/docushare/dsweb/Get/Document-849325/Sprtnote_WMDC_WindowsConnectionIssues_0617%20(1).pdf

Also try running Trimble Installation Manager on the PC. This will install the correct job converter and set the registry settings for WMDC.

I have tested with TBC 5.21 and TA 2017.24 and I can confirm it does work. I can export a job with a site calibration via direct connection.

 

 

Question 11:

I have TBC project with coordinate system and project settings. When I bring in field data from survey controller with same coordinate and project settings via Access into TBC, I'm prompted to keep survey controller definition or keep existing TBC project definition.  Of course I want to keep the TBC definition.

When defining project "Height", do I enter orthometric elevation or ellipsoid height?

Answer 11:

As TBC and Trimble Access perform their inverse functions slightly differently Trimble Access will require a project height in the Coordinate System definition. This is an Ellipsoid Height. The purpose of this is to allow Inverse to be computed with reasonable accuracy between a point with 3D coordinates and a point with only 2D coordinates. The Trimble Access Help topic can be found here.

https://help.trimblegeospatial.com/TrimbleAccess/latest/en/Project_Height.htm?Highlight=project%20height

Due to this Project Height being entered into Access TBC sees this as being a difference in the Coordinate System definition, and prompts for you to select one, or the other. If you click Details when this dialogue appears in TBC you will have the differences highlighted for you in a HTML report.

 

Question 12:

Can I use the Trimble SX10 on the GEDO rail trolley?

Track for tunnels mapping & track layout

Answer 12:

Currently there is no support for the SX10 in any of the GEDO software. Both solutions are very specific to their market and there has not been demand for supporting this. 

Based on demand this could be considered, but for me this is the first requirement I’ve heard for it. 

Question 13:

I have to two TSC3 units and one unit connects some of the time through the micro usb port, the other one does not connect.  Computer is W10 pro. TBC 5.20. I've tried everything, installed WDMC, uninstall. Ran patch to fix registry. Install new HD and all software.  Same issues. Is there some video or support to help me resolve this issue?

Answer 13:

You can try switching the controller from Enabled Advanced USB mode from on to off. This sometimes improves it connecting to a PC. If you find that your controllers are already off, then switch the Advanced USB mode on. 

You should also check the operating system version of the controllers. If one is different to the other then you can either match them , or update to the latest version of the operating system. 

For more information on this I would suggest calling your local distribution partner and getting them to walk you through changing the settings mentioned and checking the OS version.

Could be that the UI module in one of the TSC3 is faulty and may need replacing.

Question 14:

Exporting the right controller version for .job file from TBC

Answer 14:

In TBC it is only since the release of Trimble Access 2018.xx and above that the version numbering is obvious. Prior to that you will need to open Trimble Access on your controller and go to the About section. This will list the General Survey version, which is what you see in TBC. For instance Trimble Access v2017.24 has General Survey version 3.21.405. This means in TBC we would need to select the export version of 3.20 for that controller. 

The better option may be to utilise the JXL file, these are version independent and can be imported to most controller versions. This does create an extra step on the controller of creating the job file from the JXL, but you won’t get caught out with the wrong version.

 

Question 15:

In Trimble Business Center you can use the 'measure angle' tool and save the measured angles as stored information in the .vce. Is it possible to report this queried information or automatically push the values into a table?

Answer 15:

At the moment no, this isn't possible. You may be able to create this using a TML if you’re familiar with scripting or know someone that is. RockPile Solutions in the USA are able to build custom TML and UPG may also be able to assist in this area also, both of these would require paying for the development.

 

Question 16:

The difference between the Roving precision setting in Settings:Survey Styles:Rover Options and the precision setting in Settings:Survey Styles:Topo Point?

Answer 16:

The Roving Precision is there to set a threshold that defines when you see the green tick in the Trimble Access ribbon. This is only available on receivers with HD-GNSS or Propoint as earlier receivers used a Fixed/Float criteria which was less precise. So the Roving precision acts as more of a visual check that the receiver has initialised and is positioning to the survey requirements when it is not actively recording a point observation.

The Topo point precision ensures that the point being measured has achieved the requirement set. You can either leave this to Auto, or set a specific requirement that will trigger the observation to take more epochs if the precision has not been met.

 

Question 17:

With respet to RTK with loging surveys, what are the implications of simply changing the coordinates of the PRS (reference) station from GDA94 to GDA2020 coordinates and recalculating in TBC?

Answer 17:

As long as we are storing vectors for the surveys then whether it is RTK or RTK & Logging we still have an observation tie back to the base station. By changing the location of the base we perform a translation on the survey. The vectors don’t undergo any modification and perfectly maintain their spatial relationship to the base location.

If doing this it is always recommended to have a survey mark in the survey area that you can make comparison against. But that’s survey 101

Additional Answers:

The current release of TBC 5.21 has GDA94 and GDA2020 datums available.  They both have datum transformation parameters of 0,0,0 so changing from GDA94 to GDA2020 will not change the coordinates.

If Logging has been done you can send the data to AUSPOS to get the GDA2020 coordinates and then enter them into a TBC project to change the originally entered coordinate for the base.  The RTK vectors will now be applied to the new base position and grid coordinates of your measured points will be updated based on the new base position

 

Question 18:

I have been finding myself confused on the most appropriate broadcast format to set in my survey style.  Do you have any guidance / recommendations on which to choose?

Answer 18:

If your equipment is all Trimble and you’re operating your own Base then I would utilise the CMRx format. This is a Trimble proprietary format that has good data compression and will allow for the most amount of information to be sent to the Rover. 

If you’re dealing with much older equipment then you may need to use the CMR+ format that was superseded by CMRx. 

If you start dealing with a mixed fleet then RTCM formats would be required as this is the format that all manufacturers support. It’s never quite as straight forward as that but, it is the go to for being manufacturer independent. 

When configuring NTRIP based survey styles then then the same rules above apply, with the additional factor of whether or not you are going to utilise a Nearest Base or Network correction. If using a Network solution then one of the VRS options should be used. If using a Nearest Base solution then one of the Multi station options should be used, these allow for base hopping when you change proximity to the nearest base to your location in a network.  

Additional Answers:

For Trimble Base to Trimble Rover CMRx is best.

For Trimble and third party RTCM 3.2 if they all support this would be ideal.  Older receiver may only have RTCM 3.0

 

Question 19:

What is the purpose of ebubble magnetometer calibration and magnometer alignment calibration and do they affect the ebubble if they are not calibrated?

Answer 19:

The Magnetometer and calibration and Magnetometer Alignment are only required if you intend to use the Compensated Point measurement type (where the pole is inclined). If you’re not doing Compensated Point measurements then you don’t need to perform the Magnetometer related aspects of calibrating the R10, R10-2, R12. 

 

Question 20:

Since I am talking to folks that are directly familiar with the GDA94 to GDA2020 shift, quick follow up to the 'changing coordinates of the PRS (reference) station from GDA94 to GDA2020 in TBC' as Steven mentioned, this a block translation.  Would it be more appropriate to apply a uniform 7 parameter tranformation to the RTK points to get to GDA2020?

Answer 20:

Trimble is aware of the limitation in GDA94 to GDA2020 conversion with the current Coordinate System Manager datums.  It is being looked into by our development team.

 

Question 21:

Is ther a way to decouple a station setup based on a RTK vector?

E.G. a crew takes an RTK shot and then sperforms a Station Setup on that point and then uses another RTK shot for the backsight.

Answer 21:

In Trimble Access you could Key In a new point at the RTK surveyed location and then use that for the setup. This would create an independent point for all of the conventional survey.

In TBC you could choose to Add Coordinate and then disable the vector, or delete it entirely. 

Question 22:

Also is there a way to convert a stake out shot to a topo sideshot?

Answer 22:

In TBC there is a workflow for doing this. Just select the As-Set Out Point and then right click for Options. Within that you can Convert As-Set Out Point into a normal Point. Once this is done you can delete the As-Set Out point if required. 

We don’t allow the As-Set Out point itself to be shifted as this acts as a true and unadulterated representation of the point that was surveyed in the field.

Question 23:

How do you handle multimple imports in TBC when it asks for whether or not you want to use the TBC or imported file settings?

I have seen it add multiple site setting transformations 

Answer 23:

One of our recent webinars went through this and many other common problems. The link to the webinar is below.

https://register.gotowebinar.com/recording/549871668405988108

Question 24:

is there any available Channel Maybe on YouTube that could strongly help with tutoring a customer on how to make us of TBC and Trimble Access??

Answer 24:

We have very good written documentation on the Trimble Access Help Portal. https://help.trimblegeospatial.com/TrimbleAccess/latest/en/Home.htm

There are some videos contained there around newer functionality. At the moment if you want more video content than we have available then you can look to other Trimble Distribution Partners such as the ones below.

https://www.youtube.com/user/KORECGROUP/videos 

https://www.youtube.com/user/SeilerSolutions/videos

https://www.youtube.com/user/FPIMapping/videos

If you have any suggestions on topics we’d be happy to hear where we can improve this.

For TBC we also have a very active YouTube site

https://www.youtube.com/user/TBCSurvey

And the Geospatial Webinars have a huge amount of info in a longer format

https://geospatial.trimble.com/webinars-home?_ga=2.132932683.430741120.1586204816-154541266.1581037274

Question 25:

Using R12, Regarding The Trimble SurePoint tilt compensation and precise

position capture can it still meet the expected Accuracy for position fixing or how accurate is it to the true point(accuracy variation)??

Answer 25:

The estimates being displayed in the Trimble Access interface are based on the GNSS positioning and also the inherent accuracy of the tilt sensors. IT cannot mobel unknown influences in the local environment. In a good environment the estimates on screen for the Compensated Point measurements should be as indicated.

Question 26:

Is it possible to get FXL controlled attributes to remain associated with linestrings in a DWG export from TBC?

Answer 26:

As long as the destination format is able to contain the attribute information then whatever attributes are associated with a geometry in TBC will also be exported with it. So if you have some codes that have attribute fields associated with them that are being recorded in the field , these will be processed in TBC and associated with the geometry being generated during feature code processing, and then exported.

 

Question 27:

Dear Sir, While doing L Section section we have to create a line and give a elevetion to it, but when we l section in Terramodel of Trimble Real work we have to just a draw a line on data and the software will create L section , can we do  L section like terramodel or Real work to just draw a line without elevation?

Answer 27:

Not being familiar with Terramodel this becomes difficult to answer. If you just want to see the data then using tools such as the Surface Slicer, or the Cutting Plane View may allow you to view the data as you want. 

You are able to create an Alignment in TBC without any vertical information, this still allows you to utilise the Surface Profile tool to visualise the surface in long section format.

Question 28:

how can we create alignment in KEY IN and how to statkeout it?

Answer 28:

From Trimble Access just click on the Menu button in the top left corner and select Key In > Alignment. Once you’re in this interface, select the points that will make up the new alignment, give the alignment a name, and select the start position, and station (chainage) interval. Then Store. 

Once this has been stored you can select it from the Map screen and the bottom right button will become a Stakeout button. 

Trimble Access Roads has a much more detailed method for keying in alignments with options for both horizontal and vertical curves, along with the ability to key in a cross-sectional profile to build a surface of the proposed road. Roads also has more functionality in the staking of alignments and associated strings. 

Question 29:

Trimble SX10 has USB port, what is the use of it? Is it for external memory?

Answer 29:

The SX10 USB port has no public use.

You can however connect a controller to the SX10 for direct control instead of using either Wi-Fi or Radio. This is achieved using the COM port under the instrument. Each SX10 will ship with a black Hirose to USB cable suitable for this application.

Question 30:

What is the difference between RTK & Logging and RTK & Infill?

Answer 30:

When you enable RTK and Logging you will have the real-time correction and will store all of the SV observations too for the entire survey.

When you enable RTK and Infill you still have the real-time correction, but you only store the SV observations when the real-time corrections aren’t being received. 

Additional Answers:

RTK and logging does the same at the base for both survey styles.  A RTK broadcast is sent and .t04\.t02 is logged at the desired rate.

The difference is in the rover.  RTK and Logging for a rover is always logging a .t02\.t04 

For the Infill survey once the radio signal is lost you can start measuring points as Post Processed Kinematic so  a .t02\.t04 is logged with the point names stored. These need to be processed later in TBC. Once the radio signal is received again you can switch back to RTK if you want.

Question 31:

Can we publish the Scan data in TBC like Real work?

Answer 31:

No, TBC doesn't support the same Publisher that Realworks has. An alternative that works well is Trimble Clarity. Clarity is a web viewer for point clouds and objects. The benefit in Clarity compared to the Realworks publisher is that after you upload the data no one needs to download it, the station views and 3D are all done in a web browser. Clarity also allows full rotation of the point cloud rather than being locked to station based views.

Question 32:

Can you import a VCL into Access? Export VCL from TBC?

Answer 32:

Currently this is not possible. There are a number of other export options in TBC that will function the same as the VCL file. 

For Trimble Access General Survey you can use, DXF, CSV, TTM, LandXML, etc.

For Trimble Access Roads you can use RXL files or Trimble Access Road Strings (GENIO).

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