Mapping and GIS Solutions Community

 View Only
Expand all | Collapse all

Adding Obstacles in Trimble GNSS Planning Online tool

  • 1.  Adding Obstacles in Trimble GNSS Planning Online tool

    Posted 07-25-2023 18:24

    A major impediment to assessing the sky is allowing for a user to map the obstacles (obstructions) while planning a satellite observation.    I'll show you an example using the Trimble Planning Tool (forever my favorite because you can draw an obstacle map) and the online tool (where that capability does not exist.   In both screenshots, I'm planning for a GPS constellation only (OPUS submission), on the same day, same location, same block of time.  You can clearly see the number of satellites is not a reality when, as I'm doing tomorrow is observing against a rock wall blocking the NNW to SE quadrant of the sky (near vertical).

    As the years go by, Trimble planning executible will probably be not allowed to run on modern Windows.   Since you have a Web App, why not offer the user the capacity to create an obstacle map.  This comparison clearly shows how much the online tool is off from reality.

    Thanks for the opportunity to post.

    Trimble Planning

    GNSS Planning Online



    ------------------------------
    Joel Cusick
    ------------------------------


  • 2.  RE: Adding Obstacles in Trimble GNSS Planning Online tool

    Posted 07-27-2023 02:33

    Agree, this was useful functionality that would be good to see replicated in online Planning.

    That said, online doesn't help in remote regions here outside of mobile coverage but availability of almanacs other than GPS for the Windows tool is also problematic.

    Any tips on where to obtain GPS & Glonass almanacs?



    ------------------------------
    John Winkler
    ------------------------------



  • 3.  RE: Adding Obstacles in Trimble GNSS Planning Online tool

    Posted 07-27-2023 17:15

    Hi John,

    Agreed.  I'm just scared that the Windows based application is getting so old, it will likely be dropped from use.   It hasn't gone thru a revision in years. 

    Getting almanacs is a real problem.   Use to follow this guideline... (ca 2007)  MGIS Support Note - Trimble Planning Software: Setup and Configuration (mytrimbleprotected.com) which of course the link in the step for almanacs hasn't worked in.... oh, about 5 years.   About Positioning Technology From Trimble - GNSS & GPtrimble.com/en/planningsoftware_ts.asp

    Lets ask Trimble where one can get a current almanac (*.alm) without (a - a Trimble receiver running as a base station - downloading from the WEB GUI).

    USCG site, as far as i know doesn't provide a daily almanac either.    This is the catch 22 - Trimble Planning app is incredibly stable, easy to use, but depends on an almanac copied locally.   ANYONE help John here?



    ------------------------------
    Joel Cusick
    ------------------------------



  • 4.  RE: Adding Obstacles in Trimble GNSS Planning Online tool

    Posted 07-28-2023 07:10
    You can download a GPS only YUMA almanac .alm here that imports fine: https://www.navcen.uscg.gov/gps-nanus-almanacs-opsadvisories-sof
    However the only location I've found for Glonass is to FTP from here:  ftp://ftp.glonass-iac.ru/MCC/ALMANAC but the file format isn't consistent with the available import options in Planning.
     
    Which receiver are you obtaining the Almanac from? In Data Transfer I can choose file types of almanac or ephemeris and see them both sitting in an R7 GNSS....but when those files are selected they don't actually transfer, it simply times out & errors. The .T02 data files transfer fine (as well as the config files with the other utilities) so everything is otherwise working ok.


    ------------------------------
    John Winkler
    ------------------------------



  • 5.  RE: Adding Obstacles in Trimble GNSS Planning Online tool

    Posted 07-30-2023 17:46

    Hi John,

    Ah, there.  Thanks for the NAVCEN link.   GPS only is fine for OPUS sharing, but like to have all constellations.   I also tried the link, Loaded the current alm into Trimble Planning tool and no GPS sats 

    Accessing an almanac is possible thru the WEB UI on R receivers (I haven't tried an R7, but R10 etc). I can also access Almanacs from TBC.   But what I think others (like you and me) would enjoy again is a Trimble site hosting daily all-constllation almanac's to run inside the Trimble Planning tool (without the need for connecting to a receiver or sparking up TBC!.   

    The online planning tool would be a great place to expose the daily ALM (say up in the upper menu /Almanac/Download.

    Thanks John.  Still seeking a online download site for full constellation ALM files.



    ------------------------------
    Joel Cusick
    ------------------------------



  • 6.  RE: Adding Obstacles in Trimble GNSS Planning Online tool
    Best Answer

    Posted 07-30-2023 23:56

    Sorry Joel, I should have been more specific as the steps are not overly intuitive. For the GPS Almanac it's via Importing the YUMA (not loading), but with a tweak:



    ------------------------------
    John Winkler
    ------------------------------



  • 7.  RE: Adding Obstacles in Trimble GNSS Planning Online tool

    Posted 07-31-2023 18:41

    I don't think we are going to find Almanac files with the other constellations standardized in a Planning compatible format.

    Other industry tools and software ingest the separate constellation almanac files directly and individually as the files are all different. Some almanacs are text based & some xml, the content and data field layouts vary, orbit geometry definition can be different, and even if the same, the units can be different, for example GPS YUMA angles in radians & Galileo files in semi-circles.

    I think the suggestion is a good one, it would be most useful if the Planning web page could be enhanced to include both:

    1. Obstacles
    2. Option to download a consolidated ALM to enable offline use


    ------------------------------
    John Winkler
    ------------------------------



  • 8.  RE: Adding Obstacles in Trimble GNSS Planning Online tool

    Posted 08-21-2023 20:05

    So, John solved a YUMA file from USCG with a trick to find an almanac without TBC, or a WEBgui on an advanced receiver.

    Trimble, could you respond with maybe a response that maybe this is a good idea, and reply with a suggestion on how to elevate the online GNSS processor to offer obstacles, and at the same time access to an almanac file. 

    The reason for this post.......



    ------------------------------
    Joel Cusick
    ------------------------------



  • 9.  RE: Adding Obstacles in Trimble GNSS Planning Online tool

    Posted 12-15-2023 11:44

    Hello,

    Like to keep this thread alive and for an Obstacle tool in GNSS Planning tool like the one in Trimble Planning Utility. 

    John Winkler's response was great, and now the user community can ingest the YUMA file from the USCG site, GPS NANUS, Almanacs, OPS Advisories, & SOF | Navigation Center (uscg.gov)  into the utility, but the legacy Trimble Planning Utility can only provide in its satellite library GPS and Glonass.  It cannot provide PRN's for Galileo or Beidiou.

    Please consider updating the GNSS Planning tool, long overdue for an update to include an OBSTRUCTION editor tool.   Your programming on Trimble Planning works very well. A user creates obstacles emulating a job site, applies the update, and the Charts and Skyplots respond to that tool.

    Obstacles matter!   Thanks for the opportunity Trimble!



    ------------------------------
    Joel Cusick
    ------------------------------



  • 10.  RE: Adding Obstacles in Trimble GNSS Planning Online tool

    Posted 12-16-2023 08:19

    Good idea. For now you can bump the elevation mask up. This will at least tell you when more or less satellites will be available at specific points during day. Show worst case then when you get out there you may end up with a few extra satellites 



    ------------------------------
    eric bock
    ------------------------------



  • 11.  RE: Adding Obstacles in Trimble GNSS Planning Online tool

    Posted 12-16-2023 10:07
    Eric,
    Yes, at least there is a 360 mask, but like all things in the field, there just happens to be something blocking the southern sky (AZ 145 to 200) that could be at least planned out for a day or two ahead of time and adjusting accordingly.    

    Joel Cusick
    GIS Specialist
    Region 11 - Alaska Regional Office
    240 W. Fifth Ave. Anchorage, AK 99501-2327
    cell:907 280-9724  wk:907 644-3549 
    Alaska Region GIS Resources:
    Helpdesk: akro_gis_helpdesk@nps.gov
    Intranet Site: https://inpakrovmgis.nps.doi.net/apps/akrgis/ (please note updated link as of 03/22/2023)