WorksManager

Over the past few months I keep running into an issue in which seemingly random .CSV(control), TaskLong.TXT, Site.XML and .TIF(background images) become corrupt on TCC/Worksmanager.  It has caused on a few occasions us to lose or need to reshoot control points in the field.  The other files are easily enough replaced but doing so often takes my focus from other more important tasks.  I believe the issue started a few months ago maybe July.

My typical process for site setup is to create a site with either the Siteworks emulator on my PC or on my TSC7 data collector and load in the control points and designs using file explorer.  I then go on site, calibrate, backup the data to TCC and the SCS900 folder on my PC and then copy/paste the job from either the SCS900 folder on my PC or TCC explorer itself to the Data collectors in the field using TCC explorer.  This worked great for many years without losing any data but the last several months I have been receiving many calls about missing control points, sites failing to load correctly due to a corrupt SITE.XML file or background images displaying an error message when attempting to load.  The files always have a modify date of 12-31-1979 at 4:00 PM and show as being modified by me although I am not actively doing anything to place them there in the case of the .TIF files the corresponding .TFW files are untouched.  This seems to be triggered when syncing to TCC but I am not sure when the data becomes corrupt on TCC.

Here are a few things I believe I have ruled out.  I don't think it is related to backing up my SCS900 files to google drive as I have a few units this happens to which aren't backed up to google drive.  I also have checked the time setting on my BIOS to make sure it is not set to 1979.  All the SCS900 files are in tact on my PC, Data collector and google drive until they are corrupted by a sync to TCC.

I have a couple theory's but don't seem to be able to recreate the corrupt files by doing so.  I think it is related to Works manager and believe it may be creating 0 bit files as placeholders when data is not available.  I use Works manager to push data to my earthworks machines.  I have however had data corrupted that doesn't have a corresponding site that I have created in Works manager.  It has been suggested that it may be due to transferring data using Verizon sim cards in the field or the use of google drive but I am skeptical of these suggestions as I have done both for several years without issue.

So.....assuming you have made it this far in the post my question is has anyone else had this happen to their units?  If so what was your work around?  If not do you have any suggestions for ways I could prevent this from happening or other things I could look at?  I have opened a work ticket with Trimble on this issue but am not getting a solution to this problem.  The responses generally proposes that the corrupt files are coming from my PC system although I do not have any corrupt files on my PC outside of those on TCC explorer and have no idea what I would be doing to create them as I have tried to recreate them without success.

I am happy with Works manager for managing  Earthworks/Cat Grade.  I have found managing the data collectors with Works manager to be a frustrating, cumbersome and slow experience.  Even the portions I was initially excited about such as remote management seems to work intermittently and lag significantly compared to programs such as TeamViewer.

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Skyler Shearer
GPS manager
Ghilotti Construction Company
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Hello Skyler, regret inconvenience. It is possible it is an issue either at the WorksManager/ TCC end or the Siteworks end, if you think you are not doing anything different. We will work together, reach out to you to analyze, and resolve it.

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Vijay Raghunathan
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This seems like an awful lot of extra work and workarounds for what should be a fairly straightforward process. I'm not sure why you would use Google drive, WorksManager, and TCC simultaneously, but I would mention that Google drive is notorious for not carrying over the date timestamps for files and folders, which can sometimes lead to corrupted files. Also, when you copy files to TCC or Google drive, are you copying the entire SCS900 folder, the project folder, or just the individual design folders? I would strongly advocate against copying over anything that includes an XML file (all sites, or site) into TCC, especially if it came from an emulator.

Before our organization switched over to only using Worksmanager, my previous workflow for TCC exports was as follows:

- Start a new job on data collector, import CSV control from USB, and calibrate site if needed. 
- Export .DC file from collector into TBC where I have my designs created. 
- Use the job site manager within TBC to create a site, create designs, assign controllers and machines, and export designs locally. 
- Export local SCS900 job folder and machine control data folders into their respective folders within TCC explorer. 
- Perform a TCC sync on controllers and machines to receive all files for the project.

This served us well for nearly a decade, and there was never any need for an additional third party file host. 

I would definitely recommend giving Worksmanager another shot. Yes, it has it's quirks, but when set up properly it does a great job of exporting designs directly out of TBC and out into field. We still use TeamViewer on all of our collectors, and still use TCC explorer for some things. But, I've found WorksManager to be the easiest way to manage our fleet of nearly 150 devices, despite the issues it may have.

Hopefully they help you get it sorted out. Good luck!    




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Brandon Tobias
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Brandon, Thank you for your reply.  I agree that it does seem like a lot of extra work.  As far as google drive I primarily use it to push training material, plans, photos, ect. directly to the google drive folder.  I also use it as an emergency backup in the case any of the tragedies(run over, stolen, ect.) that seem to happen to a few of our rovers each year occur.  This has saved our data quite a few times when something like this occurs before a rover is synced to TCC.   I never use google drive to push SCS900 files to a rover as I found early on that it often created issues with overwriting things it shouldn't.  I haven't had any issues using it the way I have been and have been doing it for around 4 years now.  I don't believe it to be the source of this issue as there are jobs where the data is in tact on the data collector, google drive and corrupt on the TCC explorer. 

When I copy data over it is typically the entire project folder(when a data collector first goes on site), designs, work orders or background images.  I am effectively using it the same way that I used a USB stick prior to having TCC.  I have been doing it the same way since about 2018 and hadn't run into any issues with missing data until recently including with the .XML files.  I have recently quit transferring the .XML files as I have been told that it can cause issues but it hasn't helped the problem to stop.

I would like to use Works manager but can't seem to find a workflow for many of the things I commonly do.  I like the .VCL format and have found that it loads large projects significantly faster on the TSC7 rovers compared to .TTM/.DXF but there doesn't appear to be a way to upload that format to Works manager.  I also haven't found a work flow to transfer work orders between rovers, background images to rovers, or to update control points shot in the field without using TCC explorer.  Maybe there is a way to do all these things but I haven't found it.  I had found it was easier to push calibration, designs and project control using works but given the frequency I do all the other things it makes Works seem redundant.  If you or anyone know of a way to do any of the things above I would like know how.

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Skyler Shearer
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Original Message:
Sent: 12-22-2022 10:02
From: Brandon Tobias
Subject: Corrupt files on TCC explorer

This seems like an awful lot of extra work and workarounds for what should be a fairly straightforward process. I'm not sure why you would use Google drive, WorksManager, and TCC simultaneously, but I would mention that Google drive is notorious for not carrying over the date timestamps for files and folders, which can sometimes lead to corrupted files. Also, when you copy files to TCC or Google drive, are you copying the entire SCS900 folder, the project folder, or just the individual design folders? I would strongly advocate against copying over anything that includes an XML file (all sites, or site) into TCC, especially if it came from an emulator.

Before our organization switched over to only using Worksmanager, my previous workflow for TCC exports was as follows:

- Start a new job on data collector, import CSV control from USB, and calibrate site if needed. 
- Export .DC file from collector into TBC where I have my designs created. 
- Use the job site manager within TBC to create a site, create designs, assign controllers and machines, and export designs locally. 
- Export local SCS900 job folder and machine control data folders into their respective folders within TCC explorer. 
- Perform a TCC sync on controllers and machines to receive all files for the project.

This served us well for nearly a decade, and there was never any need for an additional third party file host. 

I would definitely recommend giving Worksmanager another shot. Yes, it has it's quirks, but when set up properly it does a great job of exporting designs directly out of TBC and out into field. We still use TeamViewer on all of our collectors, and still use TCC explorer for some things. But, I've found WorksManager to be the easiest way to manage our fleet of nearly 150 devices, despite the issues it may have.

Hopefully they help you get it sorted out. Good luck!    




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Brandon Tobias
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Skyler, 

What you're looking for out of WorksManager (WM), is the same thing many of us have been asking for, for quite some time now. 

-The ability to upload VCL's directly to the WM webpage, instead of only through TBC. 
-The ability to share Work Orders and control points between multiple controllers within a project. 
- The capability to have collectors auto sync, similar to how the machines do. 
- The ability to upload background images to WM.

There are a whole host of other things that have been requested as well. However, it doesn't seem to ever be much of a priority to the powers that be. I like WM for what it is, but dislike it for what it isn't (yet?).  

With that being said, I guess we've got to make do with what we're given. I'm still of the belief that WM is great for exporting designs when used along with Trimble Business Center. As far as the additional files that you're looking to upload like background images, TCC does work, but we also like the file transfer tools found on TeamViewer. For file backups, much of this comes down to having well trained users in the field that know to sync their collectors with WM daily. Either way, I'm hopeful that we'll see some improvements to this platform in 2023. 

Happy Holidays,

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Brandon Tobias
Survey Manager
Ames Construction
Burnsville, MN
(952)435-7106
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Original Message:
Sent: 12-22-2022 15:07
From: Skyler Shearer
Subject: Corrupt files on TCC explorer

Brandon, Thank you for your reply.  I agree that it does seem like a lot of extra work.  As far as google drive I primarily use it to push training material, plans, photos, ect. directly to the google drive folder.  I also use it as an emergency backup in the case any of the tragedies(run over, stolen, ect.) that seem to happen to a few of our rovers each year occur.  This has saved our data quite a few times when something like this occurs before a rover is synced to TCC.   I never use google drive to push SCS900 files to a rover as I found early on that it often created issues with overwriting things it shouldn't.  I haven't had any issues using it the way I have been and have been doing it for around 4 years now.  I don't believe it to be the source of this issue as there are jobs where the data is in tact on the data collector, google drive and corrupt on the TCC explorer. 

When I copy data over it is typically the entire project folder(when a data collector first goes on site), designs, work orders or background images.  I am effectively using it the same way that I used a USB stick prior to having TCC.  I have been doing it the same way since about 2018 and hadn't run into any issues with missing data until recently including with the .XML files.  I have recently quit transferring the .XML files as I have been told that it can cause issues but it hasn't helped the problem to stop.

I would like to use Works manager but can't seem to find a workflow for many of the things I commonly do.  I like the .VCL format and have found that it loads large projects significantly faster on the TSC7 rovers compared to .TTM/.DXF but there doesn't appear to be a way to upload that format to Works manager.  I also haven't found a work flow to transfer work orders between rovers, background images to rovers, or to update control points shot in the field without using TCC explorer.  Maybe there is a way to do all these things but I haven't found it.  I had found it was easier to push calibration, designs and project control using works but given the frequency I do all the other things it makes Works seem redundant.  If you or anyone know of a way to do any of the things above I would like know how.

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Skyler Shearer
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Original Message:
Sent: 12-22-2022 10:02
From: Brandon Tobias
Subject: Corrupt files on TCC explorer

This seems like an awful lot of extra work and workarounds for what should be a fairly straightforward process. I'm not sure why you would use Google drive, WorksManager, and TCC simultaneously, but I would mention that Google drive is notorious for not carrying over the date timestamps for files and folders, which can sometimes lead to corrupted files. Also, when you copy files to TCC or Google drive, are you copying the entire SCS900 folder, the project folder, or just the individual design folders? I would strongly advocate against copying over anything that includes an XML file (all sites, or site) into TCC, especially if it came from an emulator.

Before our organization switched over to only using Worksmanager, my previous workflow for TCC exports was as follows:

- Start a new job on data collector, import CSV control from USB, and calibrate site if needed. 
- Export .DC file from collector into TBC where I have my designs created. 
- Use the job site manager within TBC to create a site, create designs, assign controllers and machines, and export designs locally. 
- Export local SCS900 job folder and machine control data folders into their respective folders within TCC explorer. 
- Perform a TCC sync on controllers and machines to receive all files for the project.

This served us well for nearly a decade, and there was never any need for an additional third party file host. 

I would definitely recommend giving Worksmanager another shot. Yes, it has it's quirks, but when set up properly it does a great job of exporting designs directly out of TBC and out into field. We still use TeamViewer on all of our collectors, and still use TCC explorer for some things. But, I've found WorksManager to be the easiest way to manage our fleet of nearly 150 devices, despite the issues it may have.

Hopefully they help you get it sorted out. Good luck!    




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Brandon Tobias

I was able to figure out the above issue.  When using TCC Explorer it creates a log at C:\TCC with 0 file sizes and dates of 1979 for all the folders you have accessed.  If you have Bit Locker set up to encrypt the C drive it runs periodically and after it encrypts the files located at C:\TCC it overwrites the correct data on TCC Explorer with the 0 bite 1979 date files located at C:\TCC.  If you disable the encryption for those files it will work correctly again.

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Skyler Shearer
GPS manager
Ghilotti Construction Company
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