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Trimble 5800 GPS week number rollover in September 2023.

  • 1.  Trimble 5800 GPS week number rollover in September 2023.

    Posted 09-13-2023 04:34

    Hello, 

    As said in the title, I have 2 Trimble gps 5800 wich firmware version is the latest available for those devices 2.32. Trimble in 2019 said with this fm version devices can pass the WNRO, but at this month, september of 2023 it started again. Both gps are showing UTC date in january of 2004.

    Trimble hasn't said anything about it. And I noticed that this matter is happening to other models since the past year.

    Is there a way to fix that already?

    Thanks a lot for the help.



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    Diego Paul Herrera Castillo
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  • 2.  RE: Trimble 5800 GPS week number rollover in September 2023.

    Posted 09-13-2023 14:53
    Edited by Brendon Edge 09-13-2023 14:53

    Hi Diego,

    We advised our Survey & GIS Resellers that there is an issue last week. We don't have a good communication connection to all our Legacy customers as we sell through our Reseller Partner channel, so we are reliant on our Resellers to get this information out, and they have been doing this.

    The 5700 & 5800 Model 1 receiver is effectively end of life as of August 20, 2023.

    GPS Firmware has to work with a 1024 week/19.7 year GPS Clock cycle, and needs a hard-coded Reference date to help work through Week Number RollOver (with the last one being April 2019). This means the Firmware has a useable life of up to 19.7 years (and can be shorter if the Reference date is earlier in the GPS cycle). The 5700 & 5800 Model 1 are almost 20 years old, and they do not have an upgrade option beyond v2.32. All other Survey GNSS systems that survived through the 2019 WNRO are compatible with v4.4x and can be updated to keep working. 

    Unfortunately, the only resolution is to reach out to your Reseller and discuss options with them. 

    The GIS Product team are working on a Customer-facing Support Note, as there are also some GIS GNSS systems affected by this (e.g. GeoExplorer 2008  & 3000 series). I'll try to get that Note linked here when it's published as it has a lot more details. 



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    Brendon Edge
    Geospatial Support Manager
    Trimble New Zealand
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  • 3.  RE: Trimble 5800 GPS week number rollover in September 2023.

    Posted 09-13-2023 17:32
    Edited by Diego Paul Herrera Castillo 09-13-2023 17:49

    Thanks for your answer Brandon.

    So, when you said "Unfortunately, the only resolution is to reach out to your Reseller and discuss options with them. "  you mean, that there's nothing to do about it. The only solution for now is to buy new equiment?

    So, Trimble is not helping yet with any other firmware update for those old devices?



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    Diego Paul Herrera Castillo
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  • 4.  RE: Trimble 5800 GPS week number rollover in September 2023.

    Posted 09-13-2023 18:05

    Hi Diego,

    Correct. The products mentioned are about 12-18 years since end of life and we no longer have the ability to build and deploy Firmware versions for those legacy products that have hit this issue. 

    Please reach out to your local Reseller as we are trying to come up with options to make the leap to new Trimble product viable for all. If your 5800 is the Model II, then there is a Firmware upgrade solution that the local Reseller can assist with. 



    ------------------------------
    Brendon Edge
    Geospatial Support Manager
    Trimble New Zealand
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  • 5.  RE: Trimble 5800 GPS week number rollover in September 2023.

    Posted 09-13-2023 19:06

    Here is the Support Note the GIS product team have released detailing what has happened.



    ------------------------------
    Brendon Edge
    Geospatial Support Manager
    Trimble New Zealand
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  • 6.  RE: Trimble 5800 GPS week number rollover in September 2023.

    Posted 09-14-2023 12:21

    nesecitamos pronta solucion asi como dieron firware al trimble 4000 trimble  es una marca con soporte 



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    Heder Pano ore
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  • 7.  RE: Trimble 5800 GPS week number rollover in September 2023.

    Posted 11-12-2023 12:25

    There is bug with Data Logging tab on the WebGUI of the NetR3-NetR5-NetR8 firmware 48.01 and also with NetR9 firmware 5.60/5.61   you click the left column tab DATA LOGGING > SUMMARY and it goes blank the content of the webGUI  and get a communication failure error message and freezes the CORS 

    It used to work great un the NetR3/R5/R8 until about August 2023  so it seems related to the new GNSS week counter rollover       



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    Alexander Holsteinson
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  • 8.  RE: Trimble 5800 GPS week number rollover in September 2023.

    Posted 10-31-2023 07:37

    Hi

    We are seeing failures with the NetR8 too if they do not have the latest firmware. Not sure if fw 48.01 is free or not.

    From what I understand all 5700 models (5700 & 5700 II) and R7 models are no longer operation and cannot be repaired with a rw update of code.

    I do not know if R7 II can be fixed or not.

    This is really unfortunate because I am  looking at scraping about 50 systems that are the most reliable ones every made...

    Jim



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    Jim Normandeau
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  • 9.  RE: Trimble 5800 GPS week number rollover in September 2023.

    Posted 11-01-2023 06:23

    Jim

    All NetR3-NetR5-NetR8 in 2017 should have been updated to firmware 48.01 for the GPS Week Counter Reset error...  still their firmware can be updated to 48.01 and should solve it

    Related to all GNSS receiver models (except 5700 and 5800 model I)  these you can input the code that Trimble provides in the Technical Note and update these to firmware 4.43 free and solve this September 2023 issue

    Hope it helps



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    Alexander Holsteinson
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  • 10.  RE: Trimble 5800 GPS week number rollover in September 2023.

    Posted 11-12-2023 08:48

    Hello Brendon,

    Please, so there is no software utility from Trimble to correct the data and time issue after observation and downloaded from the receiver for processing ? 

    Thank you.



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    George Ofosu-Hene
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  • 11.  RE: Trimble 5800 GPS week number rollover in September 2023.

    Posted 11-12-2023 11:28

    Similar issue happened back in 2016. Procedure to fix the data using TEQC  is the same... see this knowledge-base article.

    https://kb.unavco.org/article/trimble-r7-and-5700-firmware-issue-for-receivers-with-fw-less-than-2-3-844.html

    Jim



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    Jim Normandeau
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  • 12.  RE: Trimble 5800 GPS week number rollover in September 2023.

    Posted 10-31-2023 03:58

    I've been dealing with this issue as well. A whole fleet of working 2008 GeoXH's suddenly became bricks. I am not impressed. Trimble would have us throw our fully functional electronics into landfills because they want to use this rollover as an excuse to milk the cow. Imagine Ford telling you they won't fix your car because it's 19.7 years old. Sorry, buy a new one. What a slap in the face. I've been using Trimble products for 30 years because of the durability of the instruments. The cost of replacement of my (fully functional) units, upgrades in mapping software, and upgrades in office software would run me 60-70K. No thanks Trimble. I'm done. 

    That being said, I've found a solution that works for my Terrasync Geo 2008 units. 1. Set the clock on the unit to the correct time. 2. Start Terrasync. 3. Within 10 seconds or so (before the unit reverts to the 2004 almanac and changes the clock)(If you see 'Almanac received', it's too late), open a new data collection file. Use the default, because there's no time to type anything in anything else. A file will open, and the unit will allow data collection and transfer to pathfinder office. As far as I understand, there will be no longer be any capacity for differential correction due to the forced date stamps of 2004. WAAS-corrected field data is all you get. I've tried some test points and the accuracy seems to be the same as before. Good enough for me. That goes for the Geo units, not sure it's much help to anyone else. 



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    Joe Gouthro
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  • 13.  RE: Trimble 5800 GPS week number rollover in September 2023.

    Posted 11-02-2023 14:44
    Edited by Norman Smart 11-02-2023 17:10

    Great work-around, but it got me thinking about SSF files so I fired up a Geo 2008 with TerraSync 5.41 and played around.  Here's a slightly-improved process for collecting data (no frantic file creation) as well as a process for post-processing recent Geo-2008 SSF files using PFO 5.90.  There's something a bit flakey with the post-processing though.

    To collect TerraSync data on a Geo 2008:

    • Start your Geo2008
    • Run TerraSync
    • Disconnect from the GNSS receiver
    • If the OS date and time are not right:
      • Close TerraSync (I don't think this is needed)
      • Set the OS date and time
      • Run TerraSync if you closed it
    • Create a new TerraSync data file
    • Connect to the GNSS receiver
    • Once GNSS is giving positions, log your features as normal
    • Close the data file and transfer to PC

    To Fix the dates in a Geo2008 SSF file to allow post-processing (flawed):

    • Open the data file in PFO
    • PFO will show (Feature Properties / First) that Logging Started on the current date, Logging stopped (Feature Properties / Last) in 2004
    • Make a trivial change (for example, change the comment on a feature then save the feature) then do "Save As", give a new file name
    • Close the original file, open the modified file, Logging Started and Logging Ended will both be 2004
    • In PFO, run Utilities / Other / Check SSF file
    • Turn on Fix Corrupt Records
    • Turn on Alter GPS Week Number
    • Select manually and enter the correct GPS Week number for your data (e.g. 2286 for 3 Nov 2023)
    • Click OK - it should fix the file dates and save the file with a new name starting with "_"

    Post-process the fixed file as normal

    When I post-processed a half-hour Geo2008 SSF file I had just collected and fixed, I got messages  that:

            28 (1.63%) of 1723 selected positions were code corrected by post-processing

            28 (1.63%) of 1723 selected positions were carrier corrected by post-processing

    Looking at the COR file using SSF Record Editor, there are a lot of POS records with the same time tag (about one unique position per minute)!  I also noticed that the fixed SSF file is shown as not collected on an H-Star receiver, while the original SSF shows as collected on an H-Star receiver, but this doesn't appear to be the cause of the post-processing issues. 

    Update:  Got it!  Looking at the original SSF file using SSF Record Editor, this also has the repeated time stamps for the POS records.  The OBS records have good time stamps.    I've seen something similar when you start a TerraSync file on a Geo with a system date a couple of years old, then the date gets updated and POS (with some repeated time tags) and OBS (with normal time tags) get recorded.  I guess there's no fixing the POS time tags.



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    Norman Smart
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  • 14.  RE: Trimble 5800 GPS week number rollover in September 2023.

    Posted 11-12-2023 12:37

    Hi Joe.  I too hear your pain.  In my 30yrs of working in the GPS arena - firstly with Ashtech, then Leica, but mostly Trimble (since 1998) I have seen many GPS week rollovers; firmware upgrade; software developments, and newer flasher gear being promoted.  I have also noticed the increasing 'hidden costs' of maintaining hardware functionality on equipment forced upon us honest users by Mr Trimble.  We pay a lot of money initially for these yellow boxes of tricks that provide good data and are (generally) robust, reliable equipment.  There-in lies the problem - they are maybe too good and with equipment owners that look after their gear and use them well into their teens (the equipment that is) then we get penalised when Mr Trimble decides that they can no longer be bothered to "support" their equipment. Nothing wrong with using old equipment as long as it delivers the goods, and maintains a level of efficiency of operation.

    I like your Henry Ford analogy.  Hopefully Elon Musk does not pick up on this and introduce forced redundancy into his Tesla's after 6.66 years (if such a thing does not already exist....??)



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    Brent George
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