Trimble Business Center

I have tried various corridor template options without success (surface option gets the closest), just wondering if there are any tricks out there to get rxl for Trimble Access ready for stakeout in the field. It is probably worth mentioning that contractually we are only provided electronic data from our client i.c. no cross sections to build corridor templates from scratch. 

Any help would be greatly appreciated...

If you have the Alignment and Strings for e.g. a Road Project, I would use the option Export - Corridor - Trimble Access Road Strings as that will give you the most flexibility in the field from this type of data - have you tried that? 

This approach outputs all of the strings and the alignment in a Bentley MX GENIO Format CRD File that Access uses for Road Stakeout in Europe and Australia where MX is used extensively as a Design Tool. You may find that that is better than RXL Format because that is a Cross Section Slice based format and is much harder to control on complex road projects.

Let me know if this approach helps

Alan

Hi Alan,

Thanks for your reply.

Have tried all options in the corridor export. The crd seems to loose the string names (ES,EV, IAF, CE etc.) which is not ideal in the field. I don't have that much experience in creating Access roading files so potentially I am missing something during the export workflow?

Thanks,

Ed

Ed

I just tried it and the String names are there in the CRD file that is created - I can try and find time to test it on Trimble Access to see what it shows.

I know that the CRD Format typically has a 4 Character name limit and it is normally eg V001, C001 and not all Alpha characters unless it is what they call a Point String (a series of points with the same Code like a TREE and then it would start with P and the string would be PTR1 for example and be followed by all the Tree Coords. The P tells the CRD file that the points are not to be connected with a String.

The other reserved String Naming is MXXX or GXXX where M is a Master Alignment (defined as what MX calls a 6D String (where a spiral element is broken into many small arcs each arc has a different radius) and G is a Geometry Alignment where the full alignment geometry is defined correctly

The naming of your data may conflict with the CRD standard of 4 char. I would have thought that we would truncate the string so if you had FENCE that we would have FENC or FE)! or something like that in the output file.

I just re reviewed the export and you are right - each string gets renamed to ST01 .. ST99 and all the original string names are lost - that is something unfortunately you will have to pitch at the Geospatial Team as they manage that workflow and I have zero influence in that space

If you send me your string file as a VCE I can take a look at the work process and fire it up in Access Simulator.

Alan

Thanks Alan,

Whats the best way to get the data to you?

Ed

The challenge with RXL Files are that they are basically a HAL and VAL with Templates. If you create the Templates using the RXL File / DC File editor they will likely work better than when you slice through a set of relatively random strings to create the Templates - especially on jobs where you have median islands coming and going or ditches starting and stopping.

The way the Corridor Surface Model is sliced up for the RXL Export is basically you tell it a tolerance and it looks at the prior section created and looks to see if the new section being created differs by more than the tolerance and if it is "significantly different" you get a new cross section. I think if you have a surface made from Strings it works better than just a TIN Model when you slice it all up

You can import the RXL that was created back into TBC and that will show you "kind of" what you will be dealing with in the field. Since on the CEC side we only use SCS900 and not Trimble Access, and we use the Terramodel Road PRO file for Corridors which is a way better solution all around, it is hard to tell you exactly what to do here - if you want to share the VCL file of your string model, I can take a look at it tomorrow pm.

You can email me the file to alan_sharp@trimble.com or you can send me your email address and I can share a drive location with you to upload the file.

Alan

Just sent you an email.

Cheers,

Ed

OK - So this was a can of worms - Thanks Ed!

Here is what I have found out

When we write the Access String Model we actually Export the Corridor to a LandXML (using the LandXML Exporter) and then we pass the LandXML File through a Style Sheet (XSLT) to convert the LandXMl Data into the CRD file. 

The Style Sheet that is shipping with v5.0 converts all strings no matter what their name to string names like T01, ST02 etc. which for sure is not what you want. They have been updating the Stylesheet (the current version of the Stylesheet is enclosed) and that now will pass the Named Strings / Features out with the 4 character code (this is an MX GENIO File restriction as you know) provided that the source model has names of 4 Characters or less. Where the source model has names of 5 characters or more, they convert the name to ST01 etc still which I still think is incorrect.

Question - If you have a source model that has a 10 char name, we have to reduce it to 4 characters. Do you want us to just Truncate to 4 characters in the exported file. I dont believe that Access has any issues with the 4 character naming, however they may not be correct naming under the MX GENIO standard. Appreciate that you would prefer to have the full names, however because the Access Team are using the MX GENIO standard it has to be 4 characters.

You can of course rename long named strings from 12D to 4 character string names before you use them for ACcess. My guess is that 12D also has the ability to Map its names to MX 4 character names within the 12D software - so you could maybe agree the conventions you need with your ENgineers or with a 12D user to flip your files. If the data originates as a true MX GENIO CRD file you should only have 4 character string names, and you may actually just be able to take the provided GENIO file directly to the field in Access - I have not had a chance to see if Access understands all variants of the GENIO format or just the one that is written out by TBC (trying to find that out for you here)

OK - Now for the next part

1) If you create a Corridor Model in TBC using real instructions (not a Surface Instruction), then the CRD file that is output will have the HAL / VAL plus the Strings created from the Feature Nodes in the Template(s), The HAL naming is probably not correct (normally in MX GENIO the HAL Name is like M001 G001 (M = Master String and G = Geometry String). M = 6D String and G = 12D String in MX terminology). If I start with an alignment called HAL it became HALMCG1 which is not a legal GENIO name as far as I am aware but it is less than 8 char which is likely OK in MX and Access. The Daylight Line String can also be nominated as the INTL or INTR string (Intersection String in MX Terminology) and that is used by Access to know which strings form the sideslopes of the embankments (the batters in your terminology). If you leave the conversion as None then the string name from the Source data will be passed if less than 4 characters, or STXX when more than 4 characters in the source as it is now.

2) If you create a Corridor, add the Strings as Reference Lines to the Corridor itself (Edit Corridor), then the strings show up as Nodes in the template(s). You can use Connect Instructions to join the nodes to build a Corridor Model. When built this way, the corridor passes out exactly the same way as (1) above.

3) If you create a Corridor, and use a Surface Instruction for Finished Grade (where the Surface Model selected is created from the String data, the export only sends out the HAL and the Daylight Line - no other strings are exported. If you add the strings as reference lines it also makes no difference to the export.

4) Ideally when you import any string data and alignment data into TBC, you should just be able to select the required strings and the required alignment(s) and export them to the CRD file - this would I think be the simplest and easiest solution for Access - and it would not matter if the data came from MX, 12D, Imodel, LandXML, DWG, DXF, DGN or any other format providing strings. If you want a surface model you can create a surface as well from the correct strings and provide that as a TTM file. I am not totally familiar with Access and what you can do with HAL/VAL (one or multiple in one file), Strings (that may or may not relate to a HAL/VAL), and Surface(s) (One or More), and how you can use those in combination in the field (maybe you can comment on this).

I have passed this feedback onto the Geospatial Team and the have to determine if they address (4) above, but it would seem that (1) or (2) works, 3 is not working at all and (4) would be a better all round solution for getting the Strings and Alignment out to Access with or without an associated TIN Model for Elevation controls / as built checking and QA purposes.

As I said yesterday, I would personally avoid DC or RXL files unless it is a simple road and I had keyed the data in parametrically - the slicing up of the TIN to create Templates is never going to give yiu a great result in my view.

The Style Sheet enclosed needs to be placed in the following location (64 Bit)

Rename the one that is there so you can get it back if you need it later

C:\Program Files\Trimble\Trimble Business Center\Support\iv

This will convert 4 Char Names or less correctly. If you agree that we should truncate the name rather than replace the name I will feed that back into the development team as a follow up to this email. I don't know where the truncating will be done (in the export program or by the Stylesheet - depending on which it will maybe take a patch or other release to get a fix out there for this issue. If it is a Style Sheet change then as soon as I see it I can get it to you to try out. If you know how to edit Stylesheets you may be able to address this issue yourself.

Note that this is not a formally released Style Sheet and it is provided to you so that you can validate if this fits your workflow better or not. It will be formally updated in the product at the next release.

I hope that this answers the question - apologies that I cannot give you (4) directly, however I will try to get development to add that to this export process to get you a better solution.

Alan

Hi Alan,

Apologies for taking so long in getting back to you.

After updating the style sheet provided I have had some mild success.....

So after creating a corridor by adding the provided strings as a reference and then using the "connect" method, the string names have come through at about an 80% success rate. As you have suggested, anything with a string name longer than 4 characters has been changed (e.g. ST25 seen in the screen shot below). This would probably be ok, however the big issue is the corridor creation method in TBC. It has taken 24 templates to get 500m down the first off ramp on a 6.5km dual Carriageway Highway upgrade with multiple on ramps and off ramps (also we are up to revision 5 from our client). As it stands it is probably not feasible to be creating corridors in this manner (in our situation). Also the 3D view in Access looks as though the surface is not modelling the same as it is in TBC (screen shots below).

100% agree that truncating the name from the back is a much better solution than replacing the name. The string naming convention for the design that we are working on is a QLD main roads standard so having some link back to this in the field I think will be beneficial.

Out of all of your suggestions, I would that having the ability to export strings, HALs and VALs maintaining naming conventions straight into access would definitely be the winner (as you have described in #4).

As a work around in Access at the moment we are importing Alignments as an XML, staking this out and selecting the DTM in options for elevations. This however does not give you String names so the work around for this is to export a csv (point names maintain string names out of Terramodel) and activate the names on the map screen. Works ok however you just don't have the functionality that you do with a true road staking package i.e. staking batter intercepts, viewing in cross section etc.

So, after all of the above trial and error we have reverted to the tried and tested method of running xlines in Terramodel setting up a road job and exporting to SCS900....... (please refrain from the "I told you so"). SCS900 is definitely in its element for anything roading related, however it does seem crazy to have to run 2 field software packages as all other day to day surveying is done in Access. I have a feeling that I am not the first person that has looked into this before.

Thanks again for taking a look at this for me and I look forward to this functionality being added to TBC soon.

Thanks,

Ed

@Edward George,

You are not the first person that that had to deal with this. So know you are are not alone. We have also being doing what your work around is as well. XML Alignment - Surface for elevation. However when we need to do prorated grades we create points along the corridor at even intervals. It is not ideal....but it has been working. 

We have worked with Trimble numerous times on getting RXL's to function, it has moved forward (in the form of a few updates to the exports, and suggested workflows) but we have always seen the same things you are seeing as well. 

Thanks for helping bring attention to this, and for providing really clear data on what you have been seeing with it as well. 

@Alan Sharp, thanks for discussing the way the RXL is created and showing the options above, I think that will help us alot as well. 

Thanks for confirming - I took this up with the Product Management team after I sent you the last response - I gave them guidelines as to how they should solve this for Access users - I have not heard what their plans are as a result

Appreciate the communication

Did you try taking a Genio file out directly to Access without using TBC?

Alan

Sent from my iPhone