Trimble Business Center

Hi,

How to copy Polylines / Linestrings from Profile to Plan?

There is an option to copy from Plan to Profile, but I cannot find the other way around.

I have drafted few lines in the profile view and I'd really like to have them in the Plan View...

This post took me on a little diversion today so that I could try to answer your question fully. There are a lot of challenges in this question that need to be understood first.

1. The Profile view has coordinates of Station and Elevation. The view can be exaggerated. The profiles of Alignments can have Symmetrical and Asymmetrical or Vertical Arc elements. None of these are natively supported in Plan View Graphics or in Sheet View Graphics or in exports to DWG / DXF / DGN because the CAD systems a) do not have a Profile View (Microstation and AutoCAD) and b) they don't support anything other than Vertical Arcs (defined with UCS).
2. This means that in order to "move data from Profile to Plan or from Profile to Sheet or From Profile to DWG/DXF" has challenges that have to be overcome. No matter what you do, the output will never be a perfect match for the perfect geometry that you had in the Profile View in TBC itself.
3. If you draw a Polyline in the profile View, it is a simple 2D CAD line. It has no complex geometry in it. You can use the Fillet command to add in Vertical Arcs, but it does not support Symmetrical Vertical curves etc. Therefore if you select those Plines and export them to DWG / DXF they will be created as CAD objects that you can then import back into TBC or any other program as Plan View Graphics.
4. The Profiles of alignments however, you cannot export those currently to DWG / DXF because DWG / DXF has no Profile View (only Plan and Paper Space) and CAD objects do not support the vertical curve geometry. I have raised this issue today, and we will look into a chorded approximation output to DWG/DXF if you need to send these out as a DWG deliverable. That you could use in Plan View if you re import them. If we do that then we could potentially do the same thing to copy Profiles from Profile to Plan View - I would however like to know the use case for that and why it is needed.
5. The Profiles and Plines in a Profile View, you can draw a rectangle around them and then use the Rectangle as a Frame to create a Dynaview on a Custom Sheet in the Sheet View. This will create the frame and the lines on a sheet. You can add a Grid to the frame and plot it as a profile. I did try to export these to DWG/DXF and the best I could get was the Grid and the Plines, you cannot get the profiles out from a Dynaview either. Again - if we export Dynaviews and Dynaview Grids to DWG, we discussed with Development the possibility to add the ability to explode those on Export so we can create linework that can be exported - again it would be chorded approximations for all the above reasons. Again if we can export to DWG as Paper Space or Real World Coordinates, then you could re import to Plan View to solve this issue.

You can also create a HAL and then add the profile you drew in the Profile view to the HAL as a VAL - use the line you drew in the Profile View to create the VAL. You can have as many VALs on a HAL as you want. You can select which VAL is active at any particular time in the Alignment Properties. You can also add multiple VALs as ref lines to a Corridor and then use them as a basis for node creation. All VAL points will be drawn at the correct elevation and at Center-line. Use an Offset Elevation instruction to move their horizontal Location out to where they are required - e.g. to build a Ditch Profile Grade line etc. To add them as Reference Lines you select them in Project Explorer by expanding the VAL section on the alignment, select the VALs you want and then add them as Ref Lines to the Corridor (the Corridor not the Template or Corridor Surface).

If however you utilize the Profile Plotting Routine for a Corridor, then the Sheet Drawing created is already all Polylines and you can export that to DWG/DXF and re import that to Plan View. This is a slightly heavier workflow until you get it setup correctly, but once setup it can work quickly. However while you can plot the Active and also any inactive vertical alignments and you can plot reference lines drawn in in the Plan View, I found that in this way of working I could not output Polyline Profiles drawn in in the profile View - so before you can plot or output them to DWG  you have to make them Vertical Alignments using the methods sown in the video below 

Great question, you blew up my morning here, but a good thing to capture and a few things for development to work on for sure.

Alan

Thank you Alan, appreciate it. Never even thought of exporting to DWG and re-importing. Also, fact that I can use multiple VAL in one Alignment blew my mind.

Is there an avenue to link data drafted in Profile view with data in the Plan View?

I.e.

When I draft polylines using Cutting planes, those polylines immediately end up in Plan View. I could have two views side by side and see how those lines are created in two views.

Is to doable with Profile and Plan views?

A profile can only exist with an alignment. Anything else you draw in

Profile View is not linked to the alignment only the Profile View of the

alignment. If you actually create a Vertical Alignment and draw the "pline"

as the profile (as a profile) then if you change the Active Vertical

Alignment it will be what elevates the alignment in eg 3D view, but each

one that you draw will sit on the alignment location in Plan so you will

not see any change, only in 3D view. There is no other connection available

- but I can see what you are asking - if you drew in the profile view, you

want the Station to be converted to XY and then use the Pline Z to draw a

3D line along the alignment that matches the alignments position - correct?

Alan

On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 6:12 PM marian.plucinski@seymourwhyte.com.au <

Correct.

In the scenario when I can draft a Polyline in the Profile View (Chainage - Elevation), and it gets automatically drafted as XY - Elevation in the Plan View:

If I were to draft a Polyline, it still asks for Elevation... that would be a Horizontal Offset from the Alignment, wouldn't it?

According to the development team, the Elevation is theoretically an Offset

in the Profile View. A command would have to be written that could take

something drawn in the Profile View and convert it into a line in the plan

view. The line would have to be chorded because if you are computing it

against a curvilinear alignment, you have to compute some points to give it

location - especially if you are doing it with "elevations" as offsets that

would trigger potentially variable offset lines in the plan view etc.

It is possible to do, what applications are you thinking this would be used

for? (Walls, Bridges, Other?)

Let me know

Alan

On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 7:02 PM marian.plucinski@seymourwhyte.com.au <

Thanks Alan,

On the example above I wanted to "Smooth" out profile of the invert level of the creek.

What I wanted to do:

• draw a poly line along the profile of the creek
• copy it twice by changing it elevation to -10 and to +10 (profile view elevation = real life offset)
• have this polylines appear as linestring in plan view
• create surface that represents "creek invert level"
• offset that surface 1.0m up.
• trim that surface to the edges of the existing surface -> effectively creating water level at 1m above the invert

I manged to do it by:

• creating an alignment along the creek
• creating set of cutting planes along that alignment
• drafting a polylines between cutting planes (exactly what you showed us at PUG in Melbourne in 2019, but your example was kerb or parapet of the bridge)

I believe it would be faster by drafting a polyline in the Profile View than by creating tens of cutting planes and digitising point by point. If I could use best fit line command on the surface profile line in the profile view that would be great....

In that example my final product is the surface representing water level being 1m deep.

Other applications:

• Hand rails on the parapets
• Underground Services (design new service, in the existing trench, at different level)
• Quickly create clearance and avoidance zones 

Its kinda like creating simple corridor instructions, but graphically. 

It's not a must-have, but it would definitely put TBC closer to all-rounder category when it comes to Surveying Software.

Cheers,

I love the detail in this picture and the fact that you modeled the water. 

Thanks mate,

From construction point of view it's bit of a waste of time, but enviro people like it when applying for approvals. Also it's easier for everybody involved to visualise the site and plan staging, access etc.

Haha construction eye candy but it is a good way to get other parties involved. Great for precons and design planning especially when used on SiteVision. Overkill probably but steps closer to full BIM projects and I am pretty excited to see that. 

Hey Marian.  I have some enviro. guys who would love the 3D you have.  I agree it is a waste of time for construction but for a dog and pony show it is first class. Any chance of you posting the texture files you used?

Thank you,

Bruce Flora

bflora@florasurvey.com

I usually define textures to cover 4 x 4 or 2 x 2 meters.

Elevation is theoretically an Offset

in the Profile View.

I would say that in a profile View the X is Station, the Y is Elevation and Z if there really is one is Offset, hoever I am not sure that Offset is really implemented like that today at least. theoretically you can plot the path of a Polyline drawn in Profile Vie in Plan view - it is not supported today, but I will ask a developer tomorrow if that is viable

Alan

Hi

I am not sure that my issue is this topic but I think it is close to it.
I am looking for a feature for adding vertical alignment from a cad drawing/profile to horizontal alignment.
It could be like in this picture

There is HAL (white line) was made from CAD ... 

In menu for adding VAL from a CADline/Profile cut.....

singned yellow in the picture

1 .....there could be a field (1) to select starting point that belongs to the begining of existing stationing in VAL......and a field to set the elevation for the selected point

singned green in the picture

there could be last stationing of the existing stationing in VAL...just for checking the last stationing is corresponding

for the case the stationnig is not corresponding there would be a field to set the points coressponding for the end of the line that is adding (singned green in the picture)

the selected line is not proportional to the whiteline/ alignment...

and TBC could compute elevation proportionally as curve in Z and create VAL

could it work??

Thank you Radoslaw

I watched the video and it work fine....only the scaling a puzzle for me now

When you scale the Profile you are removing the Vertical Exaggeration of the profile. Measure the distance up the vertical scale of the profile and compare that to a known elevation distance - ie if you measure 40 and it says 20 you have a 2:1 scale. To remove the Scale you will use the Scale Command and you want to scale the Y Axis by 0.5 and the X axis by 1 (Typically the X axis is the Station and the station is not normally scaled - if it is scaled then you need to scale that also.

Pick the point at which you want to apply the scale - I typically pick the left end of the profile on the datum line where you know the elevation - in this way it will scale all the data above and below the datum line selected by the scale values entered and you will not need to move the profile afterwards.

Always check that after the scaling your profile is in the correct place (in terms of Station and Elevation) and move it if not to the right Station and Elevation. Also check the elevations are now correct on the Vertical and horizontal axes.

Note that this process works well for Estimating, however the imported CAD file if Exaggerated likely is not the same as the design data - if the original Design had Vertical Curves or Vertical Arcs in it and then they were vertically exaggerated, it is likely that the profile in the imported CAD is chorded or has some approximated draftsmans drawing that makes the profile look nice on paper but likely is not a perfect match for the design - so OK for an Estimate but I would be careful of using it for a 3D model depending on the accuracy that you are chasing.

Alan