Trimble Business Center

In the last week I have had two separate users asking a similar / related question. In both cases the users stated that data that was in their project had "disappeared". In both cases I followed up, and the data was in fact missing. We discussed how this could be, and I believe that I have tracked it down to the following differences between the way that data is selected when you use different selection methods.

Graphical Selections

When you do a Select using the drag from lower Left to Top Right or Top Right to Lower Left, or use Polygon Select or Select by Polygon, all of these methods make their data selection from the Graphics Cache - i.e. they can only select data from the view in which you are making the selection and only from data that is visible in the view. Data that is turned off cannot be selected using these methods.

Database Selections

When you do a Select Similar, Select by Layer, Advanced Select, Select by Elevation etc. these are database selections are are carried out regardless of an objects visibility status. This means that you can select objects that are both visible and invisible. And this I believe is what people have done in order to erase data inadvertently from a project.

This is as designed in the product, however I wanted to pose a question to the Users out there as to whether or not you were aware of this difference and also whether or not you feel that this poses a problem or not. We could add a check box to Database type selections that says "Select Hidden Objects" or similar that would maybe be unchecked by default - that would protect Hidden data from these types of searches for example. The main challenge with this of course is that these methods today span all Views and All View Filters whereas adding this checkbox would basically restrict the search to "Currently Active View" and "Currently Active View Filter +/- Selection Set applied"

Since TBC does not have a "Lock Layer" function like AutoCAD, it is hard to have data that is both selectable and protected against deletion. We can make a layer unselectable, but then we cannot even query objects on that layer (because we cannot select them).

Please give us your views on this

Thanks

Alan

I don't generally have a problem with deleting hidden data as after I use a "Select Function" other than graphical I use the selection explorer box to remove any data I don't want to include. I personally think that with the number of options and ways to select data currently in TBC, it's relatively easy to isolate just the data you are after.

This is providing that you have a good, reliable layering and catagorising system and I would argue that if you don't then maybe that is the thing to look at rather than the selection systems.

Alan, I am aware of the difference and I don't think I have inadvertently deleted anything, yet.  But having that option to select hidden objects or not would be helpful rather than having to go through the advanced selection command so much.

I never have an issue on any of the database selection commands. It actually makes life easier to sort out things and clean up the project as well. I can see though where the confusion comes in and I think this discussion is a good way clarify things out. 

Agree with Matthew Pitts comments the most.  TBC is hands down the best tool I know of to select, isolate, and identify, TBC or imported objects; all objects you may want to relayer, delete, group and/or "organize".  These features are what sets TBC apart.  Autodesk is close now with the Quick select function, but Advanced select is better.  Selection Explorer and the ability to assign view filters to that, is the disruption that TBC and Trimble have achieved, by listening to their customers.    Keep up the good work.  And keep up compatibility with dwg, xml, and dgn object formats.  Remember TBC is designed and developed for the contractor, not the designer or the owner.   

@Alan Sharp I agree with Wayne. That having the option to select the hidden or turned off layer objects to be included or not.

Can you use select similar using multiple different items at the same time. For example -  By elevation, point type etc all in one step?

Select SImilar works like this

You select a Source Object - it has a number of properties like Layer, Color, Lineweight, Linestyle etc. 

The Properties of the Source object are presented - the more that you select the more specific you are getting - i. e. If you select Layer - only objects in the source objects Layer can be selected, however if you do not select Layer then any object on any layer can be selected. If you select Color, then only objects that have the same color can be selected (that may be "By Layer" in which case many objects can still be selected etc. So the more check boxes you select the more specific your Similar objects have to be. The fewer Checkboxes you select the less specific your similarity has to be.

Select Similar does not use Elevation or Elevation Range as one of the criteria (that would be Select by Elevation, however you can mix and match by using e.g. Select by Elevation and then with the selection set you made you can use Advanced Select to pick out data of certain types and of specified attrributes - I use Advanced Select all the time as you can pull out a lot of stuff using that tool, especially if you are working with Text Items and you use Regular Expressions to extract e.g. Text that starts with N space (^N ) or Starts with N space or E Space or TBL space (^N |^E |^TBL ) etc. or text that incorporates a + character in e.g. the 4th character (^...[+] ) etc. 

Hope that this answers the question

Alan

Appreciate the help. That worked great. Were you able to have a chance to look at the file that I have had the referenced files disappear?

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I have that to do on Monday Steve

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