Trimble Business Center

The reason I would like to select utility runs from plan view is because I was fortunate enough to receive a LandXML file from an engineer that had the drainage and sewer and I now what to go through and assign utility runs to their respective reference alignment.

The only and "quickest" way I found to do this is to go:

1. Project Explorer
2. Right click on the run and select "Select Members"
3. visually see where the run is,
   • if you model you drainage in orange as I do, you will need to change the BC from the default orange to something else. This threw me off at first.
   • 
4. Select the run
5. Change the reference alignment
6. Repeat until done

This is not awful for a smaller project but it would be an absolute nightmare for a large municipality project with many alignments and potentially hundreds of pipe runs.

I get why you want to be able to select the "Runs" graphically (but Runs are not actually a Graphical Object unfortunately which is why you cannot select them today (only the contents of a Run (The Pipes / Cables etc.)), and the Manholes / Nodes are not tied to a Run either (they are tied to a Network because a single manhole can be a part of 2 or more runs etc.).

Tagging all of the selected "runs" to a reference alignment - really doesn't do anything for you today (I don't think at least) - it i just a property of the Run nothing more - it is planned that that reference would be used when Plotting Sections and Profiles that are based off that Alignment would show the Utilities that are referenced to that alignment (however even that is maybe a flawed concept since a single run could be referenced to 2 or more alignments (if Plotting / Drafting is the goal) and currently we only allow 1 reference alignment per run.

Are you really just trying to graphically select objects and re-assign them to a Utility Network and Utility Run of a name that makes sense? The other challenge is sorting out the Order of Pipes in a Run when selected randomly (I guess that is possible provided you don't pick any Spurs - and since Nodes go to the Network, the Pipes are the only thing you are putting in the Run and I guess they can be sorted Lowest to Highest or vice versa so that should be possible. If you then select an item that is already assigned to a Network and Run and you try to change its Network and Run should it warn you? In the LandXML example the Runs and Networks are already assigned so you are reassigning etc. I guess we should not allow a reassign to a different Network, but a Pipe or Cable can be moved from a Run to a different run.

What were you hoping to see when you assign the utilities to a reference alignment?

Alan

Alan,

The goal of assigning the utility runs to alignments is for referencing purposes on takeoffs. I think this would be a useful tool for fact checking quantities provided by municipalities on utility projects. See the pictures below taken from highway projects. 

It would also be useful for quantity ordering. The program may not support it today but I would like the ability to say "We are going to be performing the work from station 150+00 to Sta 175+20. What do my crews need for quantities?" I cannot do this with our bidding software because would be too convoluted to try and price. You can do this with Bluebeam but Bluebeam is only 2D and Bluebeam requires manual tracing which is ok but should be going obsolete with the push for more 3D, 4D and 5D data sets. #enhancementrequest

Crews can and should double check these quantities but quantities calculated from TBC for runs should provide them with pretty accurate quantities (depending on the level that runs were modeled. Sewer and Drainage should be pretty straightforward. Pressured pipes could be more complex depending on fittings and laterals). I envision something where you could set starting and ending stations in the utility takeoff report prompt.

I think you could probably accomplish this organization by reference station today if there was another column/columns that showed the station that nodes fall and with a little Excel manipulation.

In general I think the utility module adds a whole new level of checking quantities when bidding projects and doing so quickly especially if pipe data is provided in XML format. Ideally this would cut out the tediousness of having to digitize or trace utility runs either with a wheel or via a pdf takeoff software (which we do and have done and should be on its way to being obsolete) to obtain quantities. Estimators can then spend more time worrying about the complexity of the installation instead of whether or not they quantified all of the runs. More time can be spent digesting; Are the runs deep? Is there potential for conflict runs? What phasing of the project should this run be installed in? The real import stuff when it comes to installation and pricing. The picture below is from LandXML data that I received from an engineer. Within minutes of importing the LandXML data into TBC, I was able to do some color association (green for sewer and orange for drainage) and quickly found a conflict (and that was without a clash detection tool, which I am still crossing my fingers for). 

If I receive a LandXML from the engineer those quantities should be identical to what is on the plan. Double checking is always necessary and recommended but it is easier because after some cleanup the estimator could turn on the 3D model utilities and check this to the linework and to the pdf sheets. This is a very quick way to make sure that things line up. There is some huge untapped potential with the utility module that I am very much looking forward to. Very cool stuff.

Sorry about the big digression but this one of those tools that I wish I add 5 years ago when I was manually calcing runs with a measurement wheel and digitizing raster plans. The ability to quickly assign a reference alignment helps bridge new school and old school methods of takeoff. This gives those who choose to model and takeoff in a "new school" a way of providing data to the "old schoolers", that the "old schoolers" can check and rely on confidently even if they do not understand the full process. 

I would also say that LandXML does not really have the concept of Runs as far as I can tell - I looked at a couple of Pipe XML files and for example the entire Storm Network all belongs to the same "Network" and we put all data from the same Network on the same Layer in TBC. Because the LandXML doesnt have the concept of a Run, we try to find sequences of Pipes and make them Runs - that is not going to be that successful at getting it right - that is why you have to restructure the data to make it work for you.

When you do the restructuring, I would

1. Create the Runs that I want to assign things to
2. Select all of the Pipes in sequence for the Run I want to create and then change the Run Property to the Run I want
3. Repeat (2) for each Run that I want to create within the Network
4. Rename the Network as needed
5. Rename the Nodes if needed
6. Rename the Pipes if needed
7. Now if you want to reference things to an Alignment it will be easier because everything is named and organized as you want it and it should be easier to select the members of the Runs and set the reference Alignment property on all the Pipes together. I believe that the Structures get referenced based on the pipes that connect them - so a Structure can theoretically belong to two or more alignments because they are referenced by the connecting pipes / cables etc.

When we create the Runs in (2) or (3) above, we auto sort the pipes Lowest to Highest. The naming convention could be a little easier to understand (I have raised this previously with development). Doing a polygon select is not advisable because that will select Nodes and Spur Pipes that you likely do not want to select and you will then have to deselect them - either manually or using Advanced Select or Selection Explorer etc.

Hope this helps

Alan