Trimble Business Center

I just downloaded Civil3D 2020 and noticed they have a new feature called DWG compare. I haven't tried it. i have no frame of reference on how well it works but conceptual this is a fantastic idea that we need in TBC. #enhancementrequest

I think TBC could take it one step further:

1. delete the same linework (Just overlapping linework which is does anyway)
2. separate old linework, add prefix to layers: old-
3. show the new linework, add prefix to layers: new-

This would save hours of micro analyzing or starting from scratch on some projects and help to push the idea of using CAD instead of just pdfs. 

Pat, It would be great if there were some kind of highlighter to show what’s changed from one drawing to the next. However this seems like a potentially Sisyphean task. I think that until engineers and their drafting team clean up how they do work the model building user will be challenged. 

I’d be happy to get a drawing that just has one line in a layer for one item. For instance how can a layer called Curbs have multiple lines in the same over-lapping location? Why doesn’t Project Cleanup/Remove duplicate lines always remove them? Why are they there in the first place? 

I’ve asked engineering to just let me know what’s changed in a new drawing they send me. Even that seems to be a challenge, particularly if multiple persons work on the drawing.

Until engineering creates DWG work suitable for the contractor I don't see this getting any easier.

See the video below. It is far from perfect than better than starting from scratch.

I wish they would just let you know what the differences are between the TBC data and the data collector site/design data.  All you get is a dot that says, "hey, your TBC site design and data collector site design don't match!  But I won't tell you what the issue is!  Resolve me if you dare."  You're left with no choice but to resolve the problem without importing the entire data collector design/surface/etc.  Then you've got copies of the data in TBC...  

I agree.

Pat,  We have talked about this before and I agree that this is something that TBC needs.  How many times have we completed the model and then get a new cad file and half the job is clouded and we have no idea what was changed., then we all spend hours trying to figured out which lines got altered.  I agree with your comments for TBC to take it one step further.  I would like it to hold all linework in TBC and delete the duplicate lines from the imported file.

That would be a great feature. The work around I have found is to import each CAD file with a different layer prefix i.e. "C1-" then "C2-", etc... and then organize them in a layer group. This allows me to know were the data came from and isolate it quickly. I generally only have 2 or 3 layer groups for this but I have had a project with 18 layer groups just for the CAD data. Having a Collapse All function in the View Filter manager would have been really nice for that one. I also use standardize layers for all the information I use for my models and designs allowing me to quickly compare new CAD data to what I have used for my current designs. 

Hi Robert

Use the shift key and double click on one of the check boxes for any of your layer groups and that will collapse all.

SWEET! that works great! I use the double click on the layer group all the time, never thought about holding down the  shift key.

Thanks man

Glad to be able to help. This is what this forum is all about, to help each other get more productive with TBC.

You can use the shift for other stuff aswell like get a bearing from a linestring. 

How about using some of the tools we already have?

If you import data from a (dumb) CAD file, TBC (smart) knows where it came from.  You can use the selection explorer along with the view filter manager to display the objects imported from one or more files.  It can show and select what came from where, even if they are on the same layer.

If you use the selection explorer then you can look at each object that was imported.  You can easily change the ones you don’t want and even build a new selection set of just the objects you need to review.

If you want to work more with layers try downloading the Copy Layer Group Members command.  (After you place the files in the C:\ProgramData\Trimble\MacroCommands\Trimble, you will need to start TBC and run it from the command pane.  The macro commands all begin with _.)  This allows you to create new groups and rename the layers with objects within the groups with a prefix or suffix.

Once you have separated the objects by layer you can then set the display priority within the layer manager so that your new layers show in the background.  Change those layers to a bright color and then you will only see the new objects where none existed.  Use the selection explorer to select and highlight one set or the other.  You can export to VCL, rename the layers and import if needed.  Once you know what to keep, copy those objects to revision layers and integrate them into your model.

Finding changes is difficult as you may have fixed elevations or manipulated the data.  Just comparing objects may not help as you typically break and join lines to make your model.  Try some of the above and let us know what you think.

"Making modeling fast and fun"

tim

You can download the TML command from here:

https://community.trimble.com/groups/trimble-business-center-hce/blog/2018/12/05/tml-copy-layer-group-members

TBC does a great job with data management and there are some fantastic tools in program. Some that I will admit I neglect to use. Some for good reason (clunkiness, issues in the past)  and some I have not found the time to investigate enough to integrate into my workflow. The other issue with some of these methods is that they are not automated nor always the easiest. I agree that you can compare within TBC but I could make that argument with most programs in one form or another.

The TML you mention, is very helpful and actually a request of mine. 

I am looking for a simple tool/UI (which I understand is a loaded statement) that you can import two cad files and either a novice or pro can quickly analyze the differences between the two. I understand that there is a lot of metadata that you will not necessarily see the difference of but this would at least highlight the horizontal differences of the linework. Saving the users lots of time microanlyzing linework differences. The next step would be to be left with the differing components of the 2 files.

Isn't that the ultimate goal if we want to get into a CAD forward future? I believe TBC has the tools to make this possible.

How I think this could work:

There are a couple of things in my opinion that need to be present for this to be successful:

• A separate module or function – “CAD Comparison”
  • The reason for this is because the data that is a prepared TBC file will have been manipulated and tweaked and will have become part of the BC file
  • You will need to compare the raw initial  CAD that you received from the engineer to the new raw revision in order to get a true comparison on changes. 
  • Therefore the user needs the ability to have a prompt to pick the original cad file (should be in the TBC folder) and the new cad file that was received to run a comparison
• Need the ability to select a original dxf, dwg and new dxf, dwg and set a prefix/suffix to both respective files
  • The reason for the prefix/suffix would be so that when the duplicate linework has been delete you know which line work is from the old and which is from the new
  • You could probably use the view filter manager but I think the prefix is a good safe guard
    • Also useful for an audit trial
  • Workflow:
    • I could use my layers with the hypothetical “og-“ and go in and delete the necessary linework in my model and keep theses layers as a reference in a new layer group so I have and audit trail of changes
      • Layer group Revisions 02012019
    • then take the layers with ”new-“ and add this linework to the active model. Again I could take this layers and add them to a layer group for an audit trail. I would probably accomplish this using the copy command. This way the linework stays on that audit trial layer but I get the new linework on my modeling layers
      • Add these to layer group Revisions 02012019
    • Now you would just see the import stuff when you turn on that layer group and can quickly defend and educate on changes
• Linework that overlaps
  • Edge of pavement is a good example of linework that would overlap but would deviate with a chance
  • Is there a way to look for the overlap and break the line where the overlap and delete the duplicate linework, leaving the user with only the change?
  • Could we:
    • Explode the linestrings down to their smallest segments
    • Then run the linework comparison to delete linework
    • I think we would have more success in only seeing the differences this way
    • Option to join linework after the comparison command has been performed.

• Deleting the duplicate text is a must to help clean up what the user is looking at
  • I have a feeling that the text may cause a world of headaches just because there is probably a lot of variables to check
    • Insertion points
    • Style
    • Widths
  • I would say first iteration of this module/function focus on linework comparison and the other easy stuff and then slowly work on integrating text comparison and the more complex components
    • I can accomplish a very quick and easy text comparison with Bluebeam. The bigger issue is adding and deleting the necessary linework to the model which Bluebeam cannot do
  • End goal is definitely for the function/module to compare it all without a doubt.
• Delete the duplicate linework from both the original file and the new file
  • If the information is the same I don’t care. I just want to see the differences
  • This duplicate linework is already part of the model and is unnecessary
• Blocks
  • With the revisions to the block handling in TBC 5.001 I have a lot more success with entities relayering according. I have also notice that if the proxy graphics are set to 1 when exported out of an AutoCAD environment you get better results as well.
  • I think you are better of exploding down to the smallest components you can, unless you can do block analysis

As you mention, most of these tools are are integrated into TBC, I think there is more of a need for a script, TML, or  UI that combines these tools and makes it happen in a "simple" form factor.

I understand there could be a lot of work in something like this but it would save a lot of time and aggravation. 

Example from Civil 3D's tools:

Nice video Pat! Seeing this process visually I agree it would be very valuable. Then weed out all the overlapping objects and only save the changes. I am wondering why C3D crashed? Is it an overload of system resources?

I am not quite sure. First time I used the tool so it could be operator error. My current PC is also on its way out so that may be part of it.

I am definitely going to use this function more though going forward. Huge time saver when dealing with CAD revisions.