Trimble Business Center

Hi all,

I am experiencing some problems when adjusting field data from an autonomous RTK base location, to a post processed static coordinate after the field survey is complete. My common workflow in the past has been to import my jxl, delete the autonomous global coordinate of my RTK base point (for some reason they seem to cause issues for me sometimes), add a control quality coordinate for my base point from processed PPP / static results, and then re-compute my project. With this process, sometimes I seem to come across issues, and all surveyed points aren't shifted to my processed base coordinate consistently. The issue seems to happen more often when I have both RTK data and total station data in the same job file from Trimble Access.

Is there a better way to adjust my RTK base coordinate, so that all my project data is translated seamlessy?

Thank you,

- Graham

------------------------------
Graham Spitzer
------------------------------

Hi Graham

Try to setup your autonomous base a fair distance away from your known point, then go measure the point you want to use as the control point and a second known point as a check. In TBC you can then add the know control point and do a single point site calibration, the second point you measured can then be used as a check point. This will shift your data to the control point on your site. You will able be to see the shift values and be able to undo the site calibration if needed as well.

Regards

------------------------------
Albert Olivier
TBC Technical Product Manager
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 08-24-2022 15:24
From: Graham Spitzer
Subject: Adjusting combined RTK and TS data from one job/jxl file to post processed base coordinate using TBC?


Hi all,

I am experiencing some problems when adjusting field data from an autonomous RTK base location, to a post processed static coordinate after the field survey is complete. My common workflow in the past has been to import my jxl, delete the autonomous global coordinate of my RTK base point (for some reason they seem to cause issues for me sometimes), add a control quality coordinate for my base point from processed PPP / static results, and then re-compute my project. With this process, sometimes I seem to come across issues, and all surveyed points aren't shifted to my processed base coordinate consistently. The issue seems to happen more often when I have both RTK data and total station data in the same job file from Trimble Access.

Is there a better way to adjust my RTK base coordinate, so that all my project data is translated seamlessy?

Thank you,

- Graham

------------------------------
Graham Spitzer
------------------------------

Hi Albert. For lots of my projects I work in areas where there is no published control nearby. So we rely heavily on processed static positions of our base stations after autonomous surveys are complete. I could still do a single point site calibration in TBC though after inputing a new point for the static derived base station point. I'll try that and see how that works for me! Thanks for the help.

------------------------------
Graham Spitzer
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 08-25-2022 00:41
From: Albert Olivier
Subject: Adjusting combined RTK and TS data from one job/jxl file to post processed base coordinate using TBC?

Hi Graham

Try to setup your autonomous base a fair distance away from your known point, then go measure the point you want to use as the control point and a second known point as a check. In TBC you can then add the know control point and do a single point site calibration, the second point you measured can then be used as a check point. This will shift your data to the control point on your site. You will able be to see the shift values and be able to undo the site calibration if needed as well.

Regards

------------------------------
Albert Olivier
TBC Technical Product Manager

Original Message:
Sent: 08-24-2022 15:24
From: Graham Spitzer
Subject: Adjusting combined RTK and TS data from one job/jxl file to post processed base coordinate using TBC?


Hi all,

I am experiencing some problems when adjusting field data from an autonomous RTK base location, to a post processed static coordinate after the field survey is complete. My common workflow in the past has been to import my jxl, delete the autonomous global coordinate of my RTK base point (for some reason they seem to cause issues for me sometimes), add a control quality coordinate for my base point from processed PPP / static results, and then re-compute my project. With this process, sometimes I seem to come across issues, and all surveyed points aren't shifted to my processed base coordinate consistently. The issue seems to happen more often when I have both RTK data and total station data in the same job file from Trimble Access.

Is there a better way to adjust my RTK base coordinate, so that all my project data is translated seamlessy?

Thank you,

- Graham

------------------------------
Graham Spitzer
------------------------------

Yeah, this will do it if you are only interested in accurate planar coordinates, but won't you now be running into local geographic coordinates?

------------------------------
Clayton Bradshaw
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 08-25-2022 00:41
From: Albert Olivier
Subject: Adjusting combined RTK and TS data from one job/jxl file to post processed base coordinate using TBC?

Hi Graham

Try to setup your autonomous base a fair distance away from your known point, then go measure the point you want to use as the control point and a second known point as a check. In TBC you can then add the know control point and do a single point site calibration, the second point you measured can then be used as a check point. This will shift your data to the control point on your site. You will able be to see the shift values and be able to undo the site calibration if needed as well.

Regards

------------------------------
Albert Olivier
TBC Technical Product Manager

Original Message:
Sent: 08-24-2022 15:24
From: Graham Spitzer
Subject: Adjusting combined RTK and TS data from one job/jxl file to post processed base coordinate using TBC?


Hi all,

I am experiencing some problems when adjusting field data from an autonomous RTK base location, to a post processed static coordinate after the field survey is complete. My common workflow in the past has been to import my jxl, delete the autonomous global coordinate of my RTK base point (for some reason they seem to cause issues for me sometimes), add a control quality coordinate for my base point from processed PPP / static results, and then re-compute my project. With this process, sometimes I seem to come across issues, and all surveyed points aren't shifted to my processed base coordinate consistently. The issue seems to happen more often when I have both RTK data and total station data in the same job file from Trimble Access.

Is there a better way to adjust my RTK base coordinate, so that all my project data is translated seamlessy?

Thank you,

- Graham

------------------------------
Graham Spitzer
------------------------------

This kind of problem is somewhat difficult to troubleshoot without seeing the TBC project, or at least a point derivation report for all involved points. That said, it sounds like your workflow is correct, but here are a few things I would check if I had it in front of me:

1. Look in the Selection Explorer and click on your imported JOB/JXL file. Sort the list by "type" and look for anything that says "Coordinate". Under some circumstances you may have inadvertently created coordinates for your control points, which don't reflect your updated base position. Delete (or at least disable) these and recompute.
2. Confirm the sequence of total station events. Was at least your very first total station occupy point, and your first backsight point, also tied in with RTK? If not, the project may not have acquired enough information to use the updated RTK vectors to compute the station setup correctly.
3. Confirm coordinate system settings are compatible with the type of base station coordinate information you have imported. For example, if you have a global base coordinate you must be using a geodetic CS. Using a scale factor only project will not work.
4. Do you have any flags? If your base moved but your TS data didn't, I would imagine some flags would've been generated. Or did the base position not actually update after you brought in the new coordinate? If that's the case, there should be a flag there. Knowing what's flagged will help determine what TBC is prioritizing over that which you have expected it to.

------------------------------
Scott Roberts
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 08-24-2022 15:24
From: Graham Spitzer
Subject: Adjusting combined RTK and TS data from one job/jxl file to post processed base coordinate using TBC?


Hi all,

I am experiencing some problems when adjusting field data from an autonomous RTK base location, to a post processed static coordinate after the field survey is complete. My common workflow in the past has been to import my jxl, delete the autonomous global coordinate of my RTK base point (for some reason they seem to cause issues for me sometimes), add a control quality coordinate for my base point from processed PPP / static results, and then re-compute my project. With this process, sometimes I seem to come across issues, and all surveyed points aren't shifted to my processed base coordinate consistently. The issue seems to happen more often when I have both RTK data and total station data in the same job file from Trimble Access.

Is there a better way to adjust my RTK base coordinate, so that all my project data is translated seamlessy?

Thank you,

- Graham

------------------------------
Graham Spitzer
------------------------------

Hi Scott, thanks for your input. Some good points!

1. Look in the Selection Explorer and click on your imported JOB/JXL file. Sort the list by "type" and look for anything that says "Coordinate". Under some circumstances you may have inadvertently created coordinates for your control points, which don't reflect your updated base position. Delete (or at least disable) these and recompute. This is usually my first step as well.
2. Confirm the sequence of total station events. Was at least your very first total station occupy point, and your first backsight point, also tied in with RTK? If not, the project may not have acquired enough information to use the updated RTK vectors to compute the station setup correctly. I think this may be where my issue comes up. Something to do with the TS set-up point and/or BS point not updating to shifted base. They are typically both tied with RTK.
3. Confirm coordinate system settings are compatible with the type of base station coordinate information you have imported. For example, if you have a global base coordinate you must be using a geodetic CS. Using a scale factor only project will not work. Definitely. I typically work in a geodetic CS.
4. Do you have any flags? If your base moved but your TS data didn't, I would imagine some flags would've been generated. Or did the base position not actually update after you brought in the new coordinate? If that's the case, there should be a flag there. Knowing what's flagged will help determine what TBC is prioritizing over that which you have expected it to. Yes, for projects where I have issues, I typically have point computation error flags. I will dig into this more.

------------------------------
Graham Spitzer
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 08-25-2022 08:20
From: Scott Roberts
Subject: Adjusting combined RTK and TS data from one job/jxl file to post processed base coordinate using TBC?

This kind of problem is somewhat difficult to troubleshoot without seeing the TBC project, or at least a point derivation report for all involved points. That said, it sounds like your workflow is correct, but here are a few things I would check if I had it in front of me:

1. Look in the Selection Explorer and click on your imported JOB/JXL file. Sort the list by "type" and look for anything that says "Coordinate". Under some circumstances you may have inadvertently created coordinates for your control points, which don't reflect your updated base position. Delete (or at least disable) these and recompute.
2. Confirm the sequence of total station events. Was at least your very first total station occupy point, and your first backsight point, also tied in with RTK? If not, the project may not have acquired enough information to use the updated RTK vectors to compute the station setup correctly.
3. Confirm coordinate system settings are compatible with the type of base station coordinate information you have imported. For example, if you have a global base coordinate you must be using a geodetic CS. Using a scale factor only project will not work.
4. Do you have any flags? If your base moved but your TS data didn't, I would imagine some flags would've been generated. Or did the base position not actually update after you brought in the new coordinate? If that's the case, there should be a flag there. Knowing what's flagged will help determine what TBC is prioritizing over that which you have expected it to.

------------------------------
Scott Roberts

Original Message:
Sent: 08-24-2022 15:24
From: Graham Spitzer
Subject: Adjusting combined RTK and TS data from one job/jxl file to post processed base coordinate using TBC?


Hi all,

I am experiencing some problems when adjusting field data from an autonomous RTK base location, to a post processed static coordinate after the field survey is complete. My common workflow in the past has been to import my jxl, delete the autonomous global coordinate of my RTK base point (for some reason they seem to cause issues for me sometimes), add a control quality coordinate for my base point from processed PPP / static results, and then re-compute my project. With this process, sometimes I seem to come across issues, and all surveyed points aren't shifted to my processed base coordinate consistently. The issue seems to happen more often when I have both RTK data and total station data in the same job file from Trimble Access.

Is there a better way to adjust my RTK base coordinate, so that all my project data is translated seamlessy?

Thank you,

- Graham

------------------------------
Graham Spitzer
------------------------------

The issue is generally with the data collector imported coordinate listings.  I am not sure what Access events will result in create coordinate events in TBC, but there are a bunch or a few.  You will get a coordinate listing under any point you occupied with total station, and maybe even for the backsight.  Also sometimes for points we have staked out.  For projects that we begin autonomous our first big push is to delete all coordinate listings that are a derivative of the autonomous 'Here' RTK base station set up.  (disable can work also, but we have had instances that we thought disabled coordinate listings were causing errors, so we prefer delete).  This can be easy to find if you corrected base station location is a decent distance away from your autonomous position, because TBC will result in red flags.  Also, use of Point Derivation Report is very helpful.  Any points that are based on something other than a measurement need to have that 'something other' deleted, i.e. the coordinate listing.

Once you have gotten rid of all the coordinate listings add coordinate to the base station using the static processing derived coordinate.  That should fix what you are listing as a problem.

One day of autonomous work is pretty quick and easy to catch all the coordinate listings.  Try two weeks of mixed total station and RTK traverse data.  I have less hair now than I did because of a few of these.

We originally handled this as Albert noted above, but found we were really working with two sets up shifted data, a local geographic and global geographic coordinate for all points (or at least that is my memory from several years ago.)

CB

------------------------------
Clayton Bradshaw
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 08-25-2022 09:20
From: Graham Spitzer
Subject: Adjusting combined RTK and TS data from one job/jxl file to post processed base coordinate using TBC?

Hi Scott, thanks for your input. Some good points!

1. Look in the Selection Explorer and click on your imported JOB/JXL file. Sort the list by "type" and look for anything that says "Coordinate". Under some circumstances you may have inadvertently created coordinates for your control points, which don't reflect your updated base position. Delete (or at least disable) these and recompute. This is usually my first step as well.
2. Confirm the sequence of total station events. Was at least your very first total station occupy point, and your first backsight point, also tied in with RTK? If not, the project may not have acquired enough information to use the updated RTK vectors to compute the station setup correctly. I think this may be where my issue comes up. Something to do with the TS set-up point and/or BS point not updating to shifted base. They are typically both tied with RTK.
3. Confirm coordinate system settings are compatible with the type of base station coordinate information you have imported. For example, if you have a global base coordinate you must be using a geodetic CS. Using a scale factor only project will not work. Definitely. I typically work in a geodetic CS.
4. Do you have any flags? If your base moved but your TS data didn't, I would imagine some flags would've been generated. Or did the base position not actually update after you brought in the new coordinate? If that's the case, there should be a flag there. Knowing what's flagged will help determine what TBC is prioritizing over that which you have expected it to. Yes, for projects where I have issues, I typically have point computation error flags. I will dig into this more.

------------------------------
Graham Spitzer

Original Message:
Sent: 08-25-2022 08:20
From: Scott Roberts
Subject: Adjusting combined RTK and TS data from one job/jxl file to post processed base coordinate using TBC?

This kind of problem is somewhat difficult to troubleshoot without seeing the TBC project, or at least a point derivation report for all involved points. That said, it sounds like your workflow is correct, but here are a few things I would check if I had it in front of me:

1. Look in the Selection Explorer and click on your imported JOB/JXL file. Sort the list by "type" and look for anything that says "Coordinate". Under some circumstances you may have inadvertently created coordinates for your control points, which don't reflect your updated base position. Delete (or at least disable) these and recompute.
2. Confirm the sequence of total station events. Was at least your very first total station occupy point, and your first backsight point, also tied in with RTK? If not, the project may not have acquired enough information to use the updated RTK vectors to compute the station setup correctly.
3. Confirm coordinate system settings are compatible with the type of base station coordinate information you have imported. For example, if you have a global base coordinate you must be using a geodetic CS. Using a scale factor only project will not work.
4. Do you have any flags? If your base moved but your TS data didn't, I would imagine some flags would've been generated. Or did the base position not actually update after you brought in the new coordinate? If that's the case, there should be a flag there. Knowing what's flagged will help determine what TBC is prioritizing over that which you have expected it to.

------------------------------
Scott Roberts

Original Message:
Sent: 08-24-2022 15:24
From: Graham Spitzer
Subject: Adjusting combined RTK and TS data from one job/jxl file to post processed base coordinate using TBC?


Hi all,

I am experiencing some problems when adjusting field data from an autonomous RTK base location, to a post processed static coordinate after the field survey is complete. My common workflow in the past has been to import my jxl, delete the autonomous global coordinate of my RTK base point (for some reason they seem to cause issues for me sometimes), add a control quality coordinate for my base point from processed PPP / static results, and then re-compute my project. With this process, sometimes I seem to come across issues, and all surveyed points aren't shifted to my processed base coordinate consistently. The issue seems to happen more often when I have both RTK data and total station data in the same job file from Trimble Access.

Is there a better way to adjust my RTK base coordinate, so that all my project data is translated seamlessy?

Thank you,

- Graham

------------------------------
Graham Spitzer
------------------------------

Oh one other thing, make sure you convert as staked points before doing this.  As Staked points hold onto the as staked coordinates and can cause problems when staking out to a point that was measured while still using the autonomous location of the base point.  Convert As Staked points, we then delete them.  This will cause these points to move up into the regular point grouping, and they will then be based on measurements only (assuming no coordinate listings in within the derivation report) and when you give the base a solved control position the measurements will hopefully result in correct resulting coordinates for these points also.

------------------------------
Clayton Bradshaw
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 09-01-2022 15:15
From: Clayton Bradshaw
Subject: Adjusting combined RTK and TS data from one job/jxl file to post processed base coordinate using TBC?

The issue is generally with the data collector imported coordinate listings.  I am not sure what Access events will result in create coordinate events in TBC, but there are a bunch or a few.  You will get a coordinate listing under any point you occupied with total station, and maybe even for the backsight.  Also sometimes for points we have staked out.  For projects that we begin autonomous our first big push is to delete all coordinate listings that are a derivative of the autonomous 'Here' RTK base station set up.  (disable can work also, but we have had instances that we thought disabled coordinate listings were causing errors, so we prefer delete).  This can be easy to find if you corrected base station location is a decent distance away from your autonomous position, because TBC will result in red flags.  Also, use of Point Derivation Report is very helpful.  Any points that are based on something other than a measurement need to have that 'something other' deleted, i.e. the coordinate listing.

Once you have gotten rid of all the coordinate listings add coordinate to the base station using the static processing derived coordinate.  That should fix what you are listing as a problem.

One day of autonomous work is pretty quick and easy to catch all the coordinate listings.  Try two weeks of mixed total station and RTK traverse data.  I have less hair now than I did because of a few of these.

We originally handled this as Albert noted above, but found we were really working with two sets up shifted data, a local geographic and global geographic coordinate for all points (or at least that is my memory from several years ago.)

CB

------------------------------
Clayton Bradshaw

Original Message:
Sent: 08-25-2022 09:20
From: Graham Spitzer
Subject: Adjusting combined RTK and TS data from one job/jxl file to post processed base coordinate using TBC?

Hi Scott, thanks for your input. Some good points!

1. Look in the Selection Explorer and click on your imported JOB/JXL file. Sort the list by "type" and look for anything that says "Coordinate". Under some circumstances you may have inadvertently created coordinates for your control points, which don't reflect your updated base position. Delete (or at least disable) these and recompute. This is usually my first step as well.
2. Confirm the sequence of total station events. Was at least your very first total station occupy point, and your first backsight point, also tied in with RTK? If not, the project may not have acquired enough information to use the updated RTK vectors to compute the station setup correctly. I think this may be where my issue comes up. Something to do with the TS set-up point and/or BS point not updating to shifted base. They are typically both tied with RTK.
3. Confirm coordinate system settings are compatible with the type of base station coordinate information you have imported. For example, if you have a global base coordinate you must be using a geodetic CS. Using a scale factor only project will not work. Definitely. I typically work in a geodetic CS.
4. Do you have any flags? If your base moved but your TS data didn't, I would imagine some flags would've been generated. Or did the base position not actually update after you brought in the new coordinate? If that's the case, there should be a flag there. Knowing what's flagged will help determine what TBC is prioritizing over that which you have expected it to. Yes, for projects where I have issues, I typically have point computation error flags. I will dig into this more.

------------------------------
Graham Spitzer

Original Message:
Sent: 08-25-2022 08:20
From: Scott Roberts
Subject: Adjusting combined RTK and TS data from one job/jxl file to post processed base coordinate using TBC?

This kind of problem is somewhat difficult to troubleshoot without seeing the TBC project, or at least a point derivation report for all involved points. That said, it sounds like your workflow is correct, but here are a few things I would check if I had it in front of me:

1. Look in the Selection Explorer and click on your imported JOB/JXL file. Sort the list by "type" and look for anything that says "Coordinate". Under some circumstances you may have inadvertently created coordinates for your control points, which don't reflect your updated base position. Delete (or at least disable) these and recompute.
2. Confirm the sequence of total station events. Was at least your very first total station occupy point, and your first backsight point, also tied in with RTK? If not, the project may not have acquired enough information to use the updated RTK vectors to compute the station setup correctly.
3. Confirm coordinate system settings are compatible with the type of base station coordinate information you have imported. For example, if you have a global base coordinate you must be using a geodetic CS. Using a scale factor only project will not work.
4. Do you have any flags? If your base moved but your TS data didn't, I would imagine some flags would've been generated. Or did the base position not actually update after you brought in the new coordinate? If that's the case, there should be a flag there. Knowing what's flagged will help determine what TBC is prioritizing over that which you have expected it to.

------------------------------
Scott Roberts

Original Message:
Sent: 08-24-2022 15:24
From: Graham Spitzer
Subject: Adjusting combined RTK and TS data from one job/jxl file to post processed base coordinate using TBC?


Hi all,

I am experiencing some problems when adjusting field data from an autonomous RTK base location, to a post processed static coordinate after the field survey is complete. My common workflow in the past has been to import my jxl, delete the autonomous global coordinate of my RTK base point (for some reason they seem to cause issues for me sometimes), add a control quality coordinate for my base point from processed PPP / static results, and then re-compute my project. With this process, sometimes I seem to come across issues, and all surveyed points aren't shifted to my processed base coordinate consistently. The issue seems to happen more often when I have both RTK data and total station data in the same job file from Trimble Access.

Is there a better way to adjust my RTK base coordinate, so that all my project data is translated seamlessy?

Thank you,

- Graham

------------------------------
Graham Spitzer
------------------------------

I would do the static work in the same project as the others.

I've learned to remove ALL coordinates, drop the site calibration and re-import my grid control (CSV file) when I have even a moderately complex project. I've encountered similar problems when using multiple RTK rovers. Control quality grid coordinates shift to the GNSS reference station coordinate.

This problem has been tremendously hard to reproduce, but I think it involves the site calibration and multiple RTK rover files.

------------------------------
Dave Olander
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 08-24-2022 15:24
From: Graham Spitzer
Subject: Adjusting combined RTK and TS data from one job/jxl file to post processed base coordinate using TBC?


Hi all,

I am experiencing some problems when adjusting field data from an autonomous RTK base location, to a post processed static coordinate after the field survey is complete. My common workflow in the past has been to import my jxl, delete the autonomous global coordinate of my RTK base point (for some reason they seem to cause issues for me sometimes), add a control quality coordinate for my base point from processed PPP / static results, and then re-compute my project. With this process, sometimes I seem to come across issues, and all surveyed points aren't shifted to my processed base coordinate consistently. The issue seems to happen more often when I have both RTK data and total station data in the same job file from Trimble Access.

Is there a better way to adjust my RTK base coordinate, so that all my project data is translated seamlessy?

Thank you,

- Graham

------------------------------
Graham Spitzer
------------------------------

i can make some comments, some overlap what others have said. we typically use the .job file but i am not sure if there would be a difference there.

-we make sure to always delete all data collector created coordinates. first select all points then use advanced select/tab that says something like apply to current selection/dropdown and select coordinate/without clicking anywhere else expand your imported file and there should be coordinates still highlighted there/right click and erase. this way there is no chance that these coordinates influence the adjustment made by tbc, no flags will show because of the shift and only raw observations will be used.

-sometimes but not always you might have to select all 'as staked points', when they are all highlighted, right click and 'convert as staked points'. then delete them in the as staked column. they will not shift with a base coordinate without this step, they will now be converted up with all the other points.

-delete any 'azimuth records'. these don't seem to shift either. in the view filter you can turn off all observations and then turn on only azimuth to see if you have any, or use the advanced select tool again.

once all these steps have been made then you should be able to 'office enter' a control point for your base station and this will shift everything as you have done in the past. like the previous comment mentions make sure you have an rtk vector to your first two total station setups or else tbc will have no starting point. (you can fudge these in and make it work, but the work flow is more complicated).

------------------------------
ian bissonnette
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 08-25-2022 08:21
From: Dave Olander
Subject: Adjusting combined RTK and TS data from one job/jxl file to post processed base coordinate using TBC?

I would do the static work in the same project as the others.

I've learned to remove ALL coordinates, drop the site calibration and re-import my grid control (CSV file) when I have even a moderately complex project. I've encountered similar problems when using multiple RTK rovers. Control quality grid coordinates shift to the GNSS reference station coordinate.

This problem has been tremendously hard to reproduce, but I think it involves the site calibration and multiple RTK rover files.

------------------------------
Dave Olander

Original Message:
Sent: 08-24-2022 15:24
From: Graham Spitzer
Subject: Adjusting combined RTK and TS data from one job/jxl file to post processed base coordinate using TBC?


Hi all,

I am experiencing some problems when adjusting field data from an autonomous RTK base location, to a post processed static coordinate after the field survey is complete. My common workflow in the past has been to import my jxl, delete the autonomous global coordinate of my RTK base point (for some reason they seem to cause issues for me sometimes), add a control quality coordinate for my base point from processed PPP / static results, and then re-compute my project. With this process, sometimes I seem to come across issues, and all surveyed points aren't shifted to my processed base coordinate consistently. The issue seems to happen more often when I have both RTK data and total station data in the same job file from Trimble Access.

Is there a better way to adjust my RTK base coordinate, so that all my project data is translated seamlessy?

Thank you,

- Graham

------------------------------
Graham Spitzer
------------------------------

Thanks Ian. More good points here. I've never deleted 'azimuth' records before, so maybe this could be causing issues. If i have as-staked coordinates, I typically convert them after exporting an as-staked report if applicable for my project.

------------------------------
Graham Spitzer
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 08-25-2022 08:41
From: ian bissonnette
Subject: Adjusting combined RTK and TS data from one job/jxl file to post processed base coordinate using TBC?

i can make some comments, some overlap what others have said. we typically use the .job file but i am not sure if there would be a difference there.

-we make sure to always delete all data collector created coordinates. first select all points then use advanced select/tab that says something like apply to current selection/dropdown and select coordinate/without clicking anywhere else expand your imported file and there should be coordinates still highlighted there/right click and erase. this way there is no chance that these coordinates influence the adjustment made by tbc, no flags will show because of the shift and only raw observations will be used.

-sometimes but not always you might have to select all 'as staked points', when they are all highlighted, right click and 'convert as staked points'. then delete them in the as staked column. they will not shift with a base coordinate without this step, they will now be converted up with all the other points.

-delete any 'azimuth records'. these don't seem to shift either. in the view filter you can turn off all observations and then turn on only azimuth to see if you have any, or use the advanced select tool again.

once all these steps have been made then you should be able to 'office enter' a control point for your base station and this will shift everything as you have done in the past. like the previous comment mentions make sure you have an rtk vector to your first two total station setups or else tbc will have no starting point. (you can fudge these in and make it work, but the work flow is more complicated).

------------------------------
ian bissonnette

Original Message:
Sent: 08-25-2022 08:21
From: Dave Olander
Subject: Adjusting combined RTK and TS data from one job/jxl file to post processed base coordinate using TBC?

I would do the static work in the same project as the others.

I've learned to remove ALL coordinates, drop the site calibration and re-import my grid control (CSV file) when I have even a moderately complex project. I've encountered similar problems when using multiple RTK rovers. Control quality grid coordinates shift to the GNSS reference station coordinate.

This problem has been tremendously hard to reproduce, but I think it involves the site calibration and multiple RTK rover files.

------------------------------
Dave Olander

Original Message:
Sent: 08-24-2022 15:24
From: Graham Spitzer
Subject: Adjusting combined RTK and TS data from one job/jxl file to post processed base coordinate using TBC?


Hi all,

I am experiencing some problems when adjusting field data from an autonomous RTK base location, to a post processed static coordinate after the field survey is complete. My common workflow in the past has been to import my jxl, delete the autonomous global coordinate of my RTK base point (for some reason they seem to cause issues for me sometimes), add a control quality coordinate for my base point from processed PPP / static results, and then re-compute my project. With this process, sometimes I seem to come across issues, and all surveyed points aren't shifted to my processed base coordinate consistently. The issue seems to happen more often when I have both RTK data and total station data in the same job file from Trimble Access.

Is there a better way to adjust my RTK base coordinate, so that all my project data is translated seamlessy?

Thank you,

- Graham

------------------------------
Graham Spitzer
------------------------------

the azimuth record only shows up if you setup the total station and observe an azimuth for your backsight. not the typical workflow these days with rtk on most sites, but we do it every once in a while.


Original Message:
Sent: 8/25/2022 12:40:00 PM
From: Graham Spitzer
Subject: RE: Adjusting combined RTK and TS data from one job/jxl file to post processed base coordinate using TBC?

Thanks Ian. More good points here. I've never deleted 'azimuth' records before, so maybe this could be causing issues. If i have as-staked coordinates, I typically convert them after exporting an as-staked report if applicable for my project.

------------------------------
Graham Spitzer
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 08-25-2022 08:41
From: ian bissonnette
Subject: Adjusting combined RTK and TS data from one job/jxl file to post processed base coordinate using TBC?

i can make some comments, some overlap what others have said. we typically use the .job file but i am not sure if there would be a difference there.

-we make sure to always delete all data collector created coordinates. first select all points then use advanced select/tab that says something like apply to current selection/dropdown and select coordinate/without clicking anywhere else expand your imported file and there should be coordinates still highlighted there/right click and erase. this way there is no chance that these coordinates influence the adjustment made by tbc, no flags will show because of the shift and only raw observations will be used.

-sometimes but not always you might have to select all 'as staked points', when they are all highlighted, right click and 'convert as staked points'. then delete them in the as staked column. they will not shift with a base coordinate without this step, they will now be converted up with all the other points.

-delete any 'azimuth records'. these don't seem to shift either. in the view filter you can turn off all observations and then turn on only azimuth to see if you have any, or use the advanced select tool again.

once all these steps have been made then you should be able to 'office enter' a control point for your base station and this will shift everything as you have done in the past. like the previous comment mentions make sure you have an rtk vector to your first two total station setups or else tbc will have no starting point. (you can fudge these in and make it work, but the work flow is more complicated).

------------------------------
ian bissonnette

Original Message:
Sent: 08-25-2022 08:21
From: Dave Olander
Subject: Adjusting combined RTK and TS data from one job/jxl file to post processed base coordinate using TBC?

I would do the static work in the same project as the others.

I've learned to remove ALL coordinates, drop the site calibration and re-import my grid control (CSV file) when I have even a moderately complex project. I've encountered similar problems when using multiple RTK rovers. Control quality grid coordinates shift to the GNSS reference station coordinate.

This problem has been tremendously hard to reproduce, but I think it involves the site calibration and multiple RTK rover files.

------------------------------
Dave Olander

Original Message:
Sent: 08-24-2022 15:24
From: Graham Spitzer
Subject: Adjusting combined RTK and TS data from one job/jxl file to post processed base coordinate using TBC?


Hi all,

I am experiencing some problems when adjusting field data from an autonomous RTK base location, to a post processed static coordinate after the field survey is complete. My common workflow in the past has been to import my jxl, delete the autonomous global coordinate of my RTK base point (for some reason they seem to cause issues for me sometimes), add a control quality coordinate for my base point from processed PPP / static results, and then re-compute my project. With this process, sometimes I seem to come across issues, and all surveyed points aren't shifted to my processed base coordinate consistently. The issue seems to happen more often when I have both RTK data and total station data in the same job file from Trimble Access.

Is there a better way to adjust my RTK base coordinate, so that all my project data is translated seamlessy?

Thank you,

- Graham

------------------------------
Graham Spitzer
------------------------------

Good points Dave. Thanks. I will try processing static and RTK in the same project and see if I have better luck. I typically delete all job file coordinates as well becasue I've encountered so many computation issues in the past. I totally agree with you, the problem only seems to come up sometimes, and it is tremendously hard to reproduce.

------------------------------
Graham Spitzer
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 08-25-2022 08:21
From: Dave Olander
Subject: Adjusting combined RTK and TS data from one job/jxl file to post processed base coordinate using TBC?

I would do the static work in the same project as the others.

I've learned to remove ALL coordinates, drop the site calibration and re-import my grid control (CSV file) when I have even a moderately complex project. I've encountered similar problems when using multiple RTK rovers. Control quality grid coordinates shift to the GNSS reference station coordinate.

This problem has been tremendously hard to reproduce, but I think it involves the site calibration and multiple RTK rover files.

------------------------------
Dave Olander

Original Message:
Sent: 08-24-2022 15:24
From: Graham Spitzer
Subject: Adjusting combined RTK and TS data from one job/jxl file to post processed base coordinate using TBC?


Hi all,

I am experiencing some problems when adjusting field data from an autonomous RTK base location, to a post processed static coordinate after the field survey is complete. My common workflow in the past has been to import my jxl, delete the autonomous global coordinate of my RTK base point (for some reason they seem to cause issues for me sometimes), add a control quality coordinate for my base point from processed PPP / static results, and then re-compute my project. With this process, sometimes I seem to come across issues, and all surveyed points aren't shifted to my processed base coordinate consistently. The issue seems to happen more often when I have both RTK data and total station data in the same job file from Trimble Access.

Is there a better way to adjust my RTK base coordinate, so that all my project data is translated seamlessy?

Thank you,

- Graham

------------------------------
Graham Spitzer
------------------------------

We do this exact workflow often in areas where we have no existing control and have to OPUS in a position for our base.  Sometimes the opus position processing doesn't happen until several days into a  project.  Once you have your OPUS position in your TBC file you will need to make sure it is set to Control quality.  You will need to convert any as-staked points because they DO NOT MOVE when the base location is updated.  This can sometimes cause problems if you have conventional instrument observations in your file before the OPUS position was set.  We try hard to not set any conventional control until the base station location is solid, but sometimes that doesn't happen.  You will occasionally have some odd outlies causing problems, this is where the point derivation report is valuable.  usually you can check the offending point and see which observation is causing the issue. Delete or disable the offending observation at each flagged point.  That should take care of things.

Also, there should be no need for a calibration as they seem to cause more TBC point position issues.  We never ever calibrate.

------------------------------
Mike Hathaway
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 08-25-2022 09:25
From: Graham Spitzer
Subject: Adjusting combined RTK and TS data from one job/jxl file to post processed base coordinate using TBC?

Good points Dave. Thanks. I will try processing static and RTK in the same project and see if I have better luck. I typically delete all job file coordinates as well becasue I've encountered so many computation issues in the past. I totally agree with you, the problem only seems to come up sometimes, and it is tremendously hard to reproduce.

------------------------------
Graham Spitzer

Original Message:
Sent: 08-25-2022 08:21
From: Dave Olander
Subject: Adjusting combined RTK and TS data from one job/jxl file to post processed base coordinate using TBC?

I would do the static work in the same project as the others.

I've learned to remove ALL coordinates, drop the site calibration and re-import my grid control (CSV file) when I have even a moderately complex project. I've encountered similar problems when using multiple RTK rovers. Control quality grid coordinates shift to the GNSS reference station coordinate.

This problem has been tremendously hard to reproduce, but I think it involves the site calibration and multiple RTK rover files.

------------------------------
Dave Olander

Original Message:
Sent: 08-24-2022 15:24
From: Graham Spitzer
Subject: Adjusting combined RTK and TS data from one job/jxl file to post processed base coordinate using TBC?


Hi all,

I am experiencing some problems when adjusting field data from an autonomous RTK base location, to a post processed static coordinate after the field survey is complete. My common workflow in the past has been to import my jxl, delete the autonomous global coordinate of my RTK base point (for some reason they seem to cause issues for me sometimes), add a control quality coordinate for my base point from processed PPP / static results, and then re-compute my project. With this process, sometimes I seem to come across issues, and all surveyed points aren't shifted to my processed base coordinate consistently. The issue seems to happen more often when I have both RTK data and total station data in the same job file from Trimble Access.

Is there a better way to adjust my RTK base coordinate, so that all my project data is translated seamlessy?

Thank you,

- Graham

------------------------------
Graham Spitzer
------------------------------

We considered what you are saying.  No conventional measurements, no RTK traverse until you have a solid solve base point.  We couldn't do it.  I mean, we needed to get work done right!

The crazy thing is this is the best i have seen this addressed and I spent hours with Trimble technicians when we moved from Spectra Survey Pro Version 4.12 to Trimble Access / Business Center.  They all wanted to solve our problems with the method Albert suggested.  Which isn't wrong, but it isn't the most correct.

I really appreciate the input on how to globally select these coordinate listing with the advanced select and i can't wait to give this a try on a simple data set and then on some much more complex data set, like a week of data and day Access files.  I really hope this helps simplify it and simplifies the QAQC from there.

Thank you everyone.  Really good topic.

------------------------------
Clayton Bradshaw
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 08-26-2022 07:18
From: Mike Hathaway
Subject: Adjusting combined RTK and TS data from one job/jxl file to post processed base coordinate using TBC?

We do this exact workflow often in areas where we have no existing control and have to OPUS in a position for our base.  Sometimes the opus position processing doesn't happen until several days into a  project.  Once you have your OPUS position in your TBC file you will need to make sure it is set to Control quality.  You will need to convert any as-staked points because they DO NOT MOVE when the base location is updated.  This can sometimes cause problems if you have conventional instrument observations in your file before the OPUS position was set.  We try hard to not set any conventional control until the base station location is solid, but sometimes that doesn't happen.  You will occasionally have some odd outlies causing problems, this is where the point derivation report is valuable.  usually you can check the offending point and see which observation is causing the issue. Delete or disable the offending observation at each flagged point.  That should take care of things.

Also, there should be no need for a calibration as they seem to cause more TBC point position issues.  We never ever calibrate.

------------------------------
Mike Hathaway

Original Message:
Sent: 08-25-2022 09:25
From: Graham Spitzer
Subject: Adjusting combined RTK and TS data from one job/jxl file to post processed base coordinate using TBC?

Good points Dave. Thanks. I will try processing static and RTK in the same project and see if I have better luck. I typically delete all job file coordinates as well becasue I've encountered so many computation issues in the past. I totally agree with you, the problem only seems to come up sometimes, and it is tremendously hard to reproduce.

------------------------------
Graham Spitzer

Original Message:
Sent: 08-25-2022 08:21
From: Dave Olander
Subject: Adjusting combined RTK and TS data from one job/jxl file to post processed base coordinate using TBC?

I would do the static work in the same project as the others.

I've learned to remove ALL coordinates, drop the site calibration and re-import my grid control (CSV file) when I have even a moderately complex project. I've encountered similar problems when using multiple RTK rovers. Control quality grid coordinates shift to the GNSS reference station coordinate.

This problem has been tremendously hard to reproduce, but I think it involves the site calibration and multiple RTK rover files.

------------------------------
Dave Olander

Original Message:
Sent: 08-24-2022 15:24
From: Graham Spitzer
Subject: Adjusting combined RTK and TS data from one job/jxl file to post processed base coordinate using TBC?


Hi all,

I am experiencing some problems when adjusting field data from an autonomous RTK base location, to a post processed static coordinate after the field survey is complete. My common workflow in the past has been to import my jxl, delete the autonomous global coordinate of my RTK base point (for some reason they seem to cause issues for me sometimes), add a control quality coordinate for my base point from processed PPP / static results, and then re-compute my project. With this process, sometimes I seem to come across issues, and all surveyed points aren't shifted to my processed base coordinate consistently. The issue seems to happen more often when I have both RTK data and total station data in the same job file from Trimble Access.

Is there a better way to adjust my RTK base coordinate, so that all my project data is translated seamlessy?

Thank you,

- Graham

------------------------------
Graham Spitzer
------------------------------