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Coordinate frame conversion

  • 1.  Coordinate frame conversion

    Posted 07-17-2022 20:37
    Hello everyone
    Is is possible to transform points in TBC from one known coordinate system to another without having to manually enter transformation parameters.

    For example if I want to transform points from New Zealand EDENTM2000 to NZTM2000 which are both pre-defined coordinate systems.  Or UTM59s to UTM60s etc.

    I had to used Terramodel to do it!

    Thanks
    Bevan

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    Bevan Waller
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  • 2.  RE: Coordinate frame conversion

    Posted 07-17-2022 21:36
    Depending on what format the data is in you should be able to. CAD data like a DXF or DWG file you can't convert. However a CSV file of Pointname, Northing, Easting, Elevation, etc you should be able to convert. Create a Project in TBC and set the Coordinate Ssystem to be whatever the data is currently in. When you import the CSV file, make sure you don't import the points as  Control Quality as this will hold their current coordinate values. Use Survey, Mapping or Unknown (there is already a P,N,E,E,C (Unknown) ASCII format already defined in TBC). If you create your own ASCII format using the format editor in TBC, be sure to leave the "Import as grid-only points" option unchecked (it should be unchecked on most of the existing CSV formats).

    After importing the data, go into Project Properties and change the coordinate system to the one you want to transform to. The grid coordinates should update.

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    James McWha
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  • 3.  RE: Coordinate frame conversion

    Posted 07-17-2022 22:34
    Hi Bevan,

    It's actually quite simple:

    1) Start a new project with your coordinate system "A".
    2) Import your points on "A" coordinate system as grid or global
    3) Change coordinate system from "A" to "B"
    4) Export your points in "B" coordinate system

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    Marian
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  • 4.  RE: Coordinate frame conversion

    Posted 07-18-2022 00:33
    Thanks James and Marian.
    I had tried that Marian but I'm working with a point cloud and it didn't move.

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    Bevan Waller
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  • 5.  RE: Coordinate frame conversion

    Posted 07-18-2022 16:13
    What format is the cloud data in? If it's SX10\12 data then if you transform the station setup point then the point cloud will move with it. With other point cloud formats you may need to import as a Georeferenced point cloud and select the coordinate system that the point cloud is in terms of.
    If the points cloud is already in the project or if it's not in terms of a coordinate system, then you can Georeference the scan using points in TBC (you need to have the Scanning module in order to do this).

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    James McWha
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  • 6.  RE: Coordinate frame conversion

    Posted 07-19-2022 14:21
    @James McWha

    Hi James,

    If the point cloud was collected using SX10/12​, then changing the coordinate system will transform the set up point. But what about the point cloud itself? I know that it will move/rotate. But will the scale factor of the point cloud change as well?

    Say: Trimble Access was set up with projection. Scan was done on that projection. But we would like to bring the point cloud to a Scale Only project.
    Can it be recalculated? I had problem just like that yesterday, and the only thing I came up with was to export LAS on the projection and reimport to SCALE ONLY project.

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    Marian
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  • 7.  RE: Coordinate frame conversion

    Posted 07-19-2022 15:37
    Hi Marian
    You can go from one fully defined coordinate system to another. TBC will use the underlaying datum transformations to convert the points into the new coordinate system. The SX10/12 scan data is linked to the station setup point and will transform with the rest of the surveyed points.
    However importing SX10/12 data into a Scale only project will not transform the data because the underlaying datum transformation is not set up. If the grid coordinates of your surveyed points are different to the grid coordinates in the Scale Only TBC project, then you can use the Transform Survey Points option to move the surveyed points. If you move the station setup point, then scan data will move with it, just like it would if you changed the coordinate system.

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    James McWha
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  • 8.  RE: Coordinate frame conversion

    Posted 07-26-2025 08:49

    james. we are having difficulty transforming from utm9 or 10 nad83 (epsg 3156) ortho to wgs84 lat longs ellipsoidal and back again. 

    our projects will be in the utm system in the end. but we need first to get wgs84 ellips base psition to process lidar data.

    then the laz will come out of that in wgs84 ellips and we need to transform it to utm nad83 ortho. either on the import into tbc or use change coordinate system on tbc to swap it all back and forth. 

    can tbc handle this? and why can i not use epsg codes correctly in the coordinate system manager? it will not find common codes. 

    we have created a seven parameter transformation but it always messes with the vertical. any ideas. 



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    ian bissonnette
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  • 9.  RE: Coordinate frame conversion

    Posted 07-27-2025 15:45

    You can certainly use TBC to transform a point cloud from one coordinate system to another. However I don't think you can convert from ellipsoid to orthometric height. 

    I have no idea what is involved with processing your lidar data, however there is no reason why you could key in a global WGS84 position into a project with a UTM projection on the NAD83 datum.

    However to ensure your point is in the correct position and height, it is probably best to geo-reference it in TBC.



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    James McWha
    Asia Pacific Regional Support Manager, Geospatial
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  • 10.  RE: Coordinate frame conversion

    Posted 07-27-2025 17:11
    thanks james.
    i messed around a bit with it this afternoon. i guess some of the issue is that i am not top notch with coordinate systems and datums. i do alright but not when you get into the fine fine details.
    i also might have to dig a bit deeper into what is actually in the laz files(figure a way when they are too big to open in notepad). i assumed that it was lat long wgs84, so i was attempting to create a tbc coordinate file in only wgs84 lat longs, but i do not think this is possible? anyone know, or what values to put in the forced projection to fake it?? pretty sure that some software will accept wgs84 projected to wgs84, ie no projection applied.
    i also see that there is no option when importing a point cloud to make them global coordinates, so this leads me to think that the file is likely in wgs84 projected to utm10. unless there is a conversion that happens on import and that is what takes so long when importing??
    i did try this but might not have the correct definition yet. will try again.

    james. i am a little confused by your comment about keying in a global coordinate as a global wgs84 into a project with a datum nad83 projected to utm. is this possible? maybe we do not have a full grasp of how to run tbc systems, but when keying into our project that is in nad83 utm i thought the globals would be nad 83? did you mean that you could key it in in wgs84 and change the system to nad83?

    thanks.




  • 11.  RE: Coordinate frame conversion

    Posted 07-19-2022 15:27
    Edited by Michael Fletcher 07-19-2022 15:28
    This should sort you out.

    Product Bulletin
    GEOSPATIAL
    NOVEMBER 2017
    WORKING WITH POINT CLOUDS IN TRIMBLE BUSINESS CENTER

    https://higherlogicdownload.s3-external-1.amazonaws.com/TRIMBLE/26ff5e4a-0cc4-4d2a-acde-34b6575ec5d2_file.pdf?AWSAccessKeyId=AKIAVRDO7IEREB57R7MT&Expires=1658273199&Signature=%2BL4bVn9dHdDLJEw4zi%2F2aHajGVY%3D

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    Michael Fletcher
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  • 12.  RE: Coordinate frame conversion

    Posted 07-20-2022 10:49
    Hi Bevan, 

     Using a point cloud adds a few steps to the conversion but it can be done. If the point cloud was created with an SX10 and you transform the control points the point cloud will move with the control points.

    • If the point cloud is imported from an LAS the best solution will be to create points within the point cloud on a defined point that can be registered to later.  
    • Export those points as a csv and follow steps James and Marian listed
    • Once you have those points on the desired system import the LAS file and register to the points using "pairwise". 


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    Brandon Elia
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  • 13.  RE: Coordinate frame conversion

    Posted 07-18-2022 08:17
    Transform by points is in the CAD ribbon. Makes the process very simple.

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    Tylor Foster
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  • 14.  RE: Coordinate frame conversion

    Posted 07-20-2022 17:37
    Yes, the process depends how your data was observed in the field (starting with GNSS observations vs. starting with coordinates).

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    Robert Hoy
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